Tyrants, Neverborn and who's who Fluff-wise [Spoiler Alert] (Repost)

[Brence]

Hey Guys,

I originally posted this in the Writing Room but don't quite think thats the best fit for it, so I will repost here. (sorry for the double post Admins!)

Having read book I and II and gathering some tibbits from multiple sources amongst which are the forums I am kinda fuzzy if I understand the entire Tyrant/Neverborn relationship so far.

They way I have interpreted the Neverborn thus far is that they are the original "Humanoid" populace of Malifaux (ofcourse human ignorance threw in stuff like the Gremlins and Critters under the monger of Neverborn also).

Further down the line I got the impression that the Neverborn where once "humans" which by merrit of their magical power (thank you Soulstones) have become so decadent and depraved that their actual forms twisted and minds shattered. Some of them even "ascending" to a sort of Demi-God status becoming the Tyrants.

Now the Neverborn (as in the people) try and prevent human colonisation as a way to "safe whats left" of their world as well as in a way protecting humanity Earthside from the Tyrants.

I could be completely off as I haven't read the books in a while. But I'm starting to pick them back up again. So any enlightenment where possible would be cool .

[Helm]

I was under the impression that Malifaux was populated by humans who used magic to just make their lives easier and get more wealth and leisure time. Just a step up from the situation Earthside, really.

Trouble is, the more obsessive and less moral people in Malifaux society didn't just grab power in a money, drugs and human trafficking sense like they did (do) Earthside (here); they actually had the ability to personally transform others, research raising the dead, control other peoples' minds and gain any personal ability they wanted. This led to the more normal people being abused mercilessly, as well as massive conflict between Tyrants who had conflicts of interest.

The Rebel Alliance formed, but instead of blowing up the Death Star they tore a portal in order to invite the forces of Death into the world. This, as far as I'm aware, was the point where the magic of Malifaux became corrupted in its very essence. The Tyrants, drawing as they did upon massive amounts of the world's magic, were weakened enough by the concentrated corruption that they could be defeated and locked away by the comparatively magic-free rebels.

This left the remaining population of Malifaux in a world where Death and corruption twisted all they did, with the natural magic of the world poisoned. Iirc, it was this long exposure that was responsible for the vast majority of Neverborn mutations; the people had centuries to adapt to this new ruined world, presumably with large-scale magic use pretty much banned, and the world's corrupted magic combined with centuries of wilderness living led to extreme adaptation.

Please correct me if there's anything to contradict the above, but that's what I recall reading.

[Mike3838]

We know that long before man came through the Breach at all, in ancient times, Malifaux was populated by two races, of lesser and greater godlike beings. The greater gods became tyranical and overbearing, and a war began between the two groups.

It's unconfirmed which of the groups was the victor, or if there were any survivors, or if either group is connected to the Tyrants.

[Dracomax]

We know that long before man came through the Breach at all, in ancient times, Malifaux was populated by two races, of lesser and greater godlike beings. The greater gods became tyranical and overbearing, and a war began between the two groups.

It's unconfirmed which of the groups was the victor, or if there were any survivors, or if either group is connected to the Tyrants.

Wait, what? can you tell me where this was said? I was under the impression that the tyrants were originally Scientists/Archmages/Warlords(I got the impression that all of the above were true), who in their lust for knowledge and power were able to transform themselves into something more (and less) than "human"(for lack of a better world. we know that they were original human-like, but again, I've never seen anything that explicitly said it, and just because they looked similar to humans wouldn't necessarily make them human, just humanoid) and harness the powers of death in a way similar to Leveticus to become Gods. Then they set about making war on each other for more power.

And we know the tyrants didn't win, because until the humans returned, they were (mostly) locked away. it took several world shaking events to free them(with some far moreso than others). This doesn't mean the rebels won, it just means that the tyrants didn't. My guess is that the only way to stop them was to destroy their entire society and stop using the Soulstones, leading to the More Nature-based lifestyles of the natives of Malifaux, but that's just a guess.

Interestingly enough, M2E seems to be hinting that The Grave Spirit (not the grave spirit, resser totem extraordinaire) is not a Tyrant. which would mean that the grave spirit is something else, quite different from any other class of entity we have seen. It has at least the power of a tyrant, but it was explicitly not named in the list of Names in the M2E fluff. Either one of the other Tyrants has been helping Necromancers indiscriminately with no real requirement of service, The Grave Spirit is the unnamed Tyrant, or the Grave spirit is the most frightening element of Malifaux, for the simple reason that it seems to be a sentient force with utterly unknown and possibly unknowable goals and limitations, playing a game that even the tyrants may be mere pawns of.

And wasn't Seamus' transformation in part due to possession by the Grave Spirit? Or am I remembering that wrong?

I do remember that book 3 explicitly states that what Leveticus does is somehow related to the immortality of the Tyrants, but not the same thing, that it gives the world a chance against them, and that his refusal to tie himself to a totem makes him less weak against them. Of course, we were told this by someone whom we now have reason to believe may have been under the influence of a tyrant, so who knows how accurate it was.

We really need a fluff compendium/wiki. Without the books and all of the chronicles in front of me, it's difficult to keep track of things(and some of the fluff bits coming from other sources doesn't help).

What we do know for a fact, simply because the City of Malifaux exists, and has done so since that time, is that at least some —and probably most—of the Native inhabitants of the breachside were Humanoid, with similar needs, size, and abilities to humans. Otherwise, it would not have been described as waiting for them. We'd here more in fluff about how the buildings were too large/small/had uncanny and disturbing non-euclidean geometries(fun fact. non-right angles in a room, especially when dealing with ceiling/floor angles tend to be incredibly disturbing, and are often the source of so called "mystery spot" activity.)

The only Neverborn we actually know to have been human at one time is Zoraida, who seems to be a bit of an outcast even among the Neverborn, not entirely trusted and serving causes and plans that only begin to make sense over long periods.

Also, while I have heard the theory that Gremlins are the remnants of the people from the first breach, has that been confirmed or Jossed?

[Brence]

Interesting! So basicly to destroy the Tyrants, who in turn seem ascended/corrupted Malifaux Natives, the rest of the native populance rose to rebellion and openend a hole into the realm of death to poison the world and thus the Tyrants... They themselves however have been twisted also by this radical approach and now live as Nephalim, Gremlins etc.? Nifty!

On an edit note: I think Dracomax is on to something. Compiling the fluff into a single source would be great. The exact stories don't have to be copied online, just a sort of Time Line of major events for instance would be grand. Also looking at the RPG this would greatly benefit!

Edited September 24, 2013 by Brence
More idea's!

[i_was_like_you]

The only Neverborn we actually know to have been human at one time is Zoraida, who seems to be a bit of an outcast even among the Neverborn, not entirely trusted and serving causes and plans that only begin to make sense over long periods.

Also, while I have heard the theory that Gremlins are the remnants of the people from the first breach, has that been confirmed or Jossed?

*cough* Tuco *cough*

It apparently doesn't take all that long for someone to become twisted into a Neverborn.

The Gremlins may be the earthers from the first time the Breach opened, but, iirc, those earthers were slaughtered, one and all. Gremlins were supposedly just the common folk of Malifaux, maybe spared from some of the atrocities by living farther from civilization / and or they fled from society to avoid such.

[Dracomax]

I was under the impression that, like Lynch, Tuco is a member of the Neverborn faction, but not warped out of humanity himself. Whereas Zoraida seems not to be human.

As for the first breach. It's implied that the humans were all slaughtered. Certainly there is no indication of them ever having been there when the breach is re-opened, and while the breach was going down, there was a sound of horrific slaughter. But, even putting aside the possibility that some were just missed and forced into hiding on the bayous(likely with some help from Zoraida), the only creature we know was there who could possibly report on it would be Lilith, and I don't trust her to be honest. Threatening, but not honest.

[Helm]

I was under the impression that, like Lynch, Tuco is a member of the Neverborn faction, but not warped out of humanity himself. Whereas Zoraida seems not to be human.

Tuco's fluff entry indicates that he was an Ortega captured by the Nephilim. While he never gave into their torture initially, eventually Tuco's mind and body warped as he realised that nobody was coming to save him.

Whereas Zoraida seems not to be human.

I can't give the book on this one

(yet)

but it's indicated that Zoraida is a human who was trapped in Malifaux, at a significantly younger age, by the closing of the first Breach.

Leveticus and Lilith are both confirmed in Book 3 to have known her when she was young.

[brib4169]

From the M2e book...

Zoraida was a human who crossed into malifaux before the first breach opened

[Brence]

Before the first breach openend, hmm makes me wonder if the first breach was in a way connected to her, maybe trying to return?

[Piranhamoose]

As far as the Grave Spirit goes. It could be an entity that came from through the portal to the world of death. Where as the Gorgon is just a death themed tyrant.

[Dracomax]

Before the first breach openend, hmm makes me wonder if the first breach was in a way connected to her, maybe trying to return?

No, it's absoluetly clear that the first breach was a result of a coalition of sorcerers trying to gain access to a massive store of magical energy that happened to exist in another dimension. However, it is also absolutely known that there have always been small natural breaches.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

As far as the Grave Spirit goes. It could be an entity that came from through the portal to the world of death. Where as the Gorgon is just a death themed tyrant.

Some of the fluff implies it might be the world of death—the collective will of all necromantic energy and the dead. In which case, I suspect the Grave Spirit really wants the Tyrants...

---------- Post added at 06:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

Tuco's fluff entry indicates that he was an Ortega captured by the Nephilim. While he never gave into their torture initially, eventually Tuco's mind and body warped as he realised that nobody was coming to save him.

Ah. I forgot about the physical twisting.

but it's indicated that Zoraida is a human who was trapped in Malifaux, at a significantly younger age, by the closing of the first Breach.

Leveticus and Lilith are both confirmed in Book 3 to have known her when she was young.

I knew about Lilith, but I missed the Leveticus bit entirely. I need to go reread that. However, I was under the impression that Zoraida had changed so much that she couldn't really be called human anymore, even if she still looks it.

[Helm]

I knew about Lilith, but I missed the Leveticus bit entirely. I need to go reread that. However, I was under the impression that Zoraida had changed so much that she couldn't really be called human anymore, even if she still looks it.

Sorry, I tell a complete lie. Leveticus needed to work out that Avatar Zoraida was in fact Zoraida; I'd incorrectly remembered it as him just recognising her.

But yes, Zoraida's not really human any more.

[Iron Heel]

I'm a little confused. I read books 1-3 and am nearly done with 4 a d so e of what I've read here doesn't jive with what I recall fromthe books. Are there other sources that you all are citing?

It seemed clear to me that Z is (or was) human who has been in Malifaux a long time as noted in a conversation with Levi...they knew each other long ago when she was young and beautiful. As the NB's favorate fate/fortune teller, she counselled Lilith to not be so agro as it has been fortold that "the humans" are somehow needed to defeat the tyrants. The best that the NB could do was weaken and imprison them. Somehow, Levi and the ponies have a big part to play i this. Z refers to humans as "humans," but I took that to mean that she has emotionally disassociated from them or was speaking from Lilith's frame of reference rather than Z having physically changed.

I like the idea of Z engineering the big ol breach or its reopening (despite others taking credit for the first one).

The NB delved into all kinds of stuff and got carried away ans filled with hubris. I can't recall if NB becme the tyrants or simply unleashed them unwittingly.

[i_was_like_you]

The Chronicles?

---------- Post added at 02:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 AM ----------

As far as specific page for Levi and no totems: Twisting Fates p. 248.

---------- Post added at 02:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

Lilith mentioning Zoraida as a human rising in power, Twisting Fates p. 23.

[Brence]

We know that long before man came through the Breach at all, in ancient times, Malifaux was populated by two races, of lesser and greater godlike beings. The greater gods became tyranical and overbearing, and a war began between the two groups.

It's unconfirmed which of the groups was the victor, or if there were any survivors, or if either group is connected to the Tyrants.

Yeah read the fluff for Trough the Breach and they indeed are referred to as lesser and greater gods as 2 seperate races, one of which went to become tyranical (Tyrants anyone?). Guess the Nephalim are descendand of those "lesser gods", Pandora, Lilith all kinda have a godly domain associated with them in a way. So it might be a proper way of viewing them.