r4st4f4n Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Excuse me, what? Sorry about your girlfriend (not that I know what she has to do with anything to do with wargaming), and sorry about your feelings on the change to the Vik (it seems that Wyrd disagrees with your opinion there) but your explanation makes no logical sense. If the scale issues stemmed from a change in one Viktoria model, then how come the Ronin don't match in scale either? One software generates the 3D rendered models files, another one splits them into bits and sprues, another one converts them into the printer language, inbetween they're scaled: is it really so implausible that during one of these steps, the models of a crew that was going to press all together, were coupled so as to give that result(more ones inside a single file, except the BVik, extracted for the editing)? Maybe I'm missing something in modern miniature casting, in case I apologize... Edited September 8, 2013 by r4st4f4n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 One software generates the 3D rendered models files, another one splits them into bits and sprues, another one converts them into the printer language, inbetween they're scaled: is it really so implausible that during one of these steps, the models of a crew that was going to press all together, were coupled so as to give that result(more ones inside a single file, except the BVik, extracted for the editing)? Maybe I'm missing something in modern miniature casting, in case I apologize... I have two problems with your explanation. Problem #1 is that the torsos of the two models are essentially equivalent in size. The legs and other parts are smaller on SwordVik, but not the torso. This means two things; it has nothing to do with the model's breasts, and it's not a simple matter of "engineer got x wrong, and x happened to be the scale that the model printed at". Problem #2 is with this bit. So, main ones to blame could be those trouble-overanything-makers, who have seen satisfied that form of fantasy-miniature-pseudo-feminism. If a miniatures company brings out a miniature that is wrong, it is the company's fault, not the fault of anyone asking something of the company. If Wyrd made the decision to change art and the rendered model (and you have no idea when they rendered the model, the whole Crew could have been rendered after art change), they are responsible for getting it out on time and with proper quality. Moreover, Wyrd has made it very clear that they release things only when they think they're done; they've held back products before due to them not meeting Wyrd's standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) So the question is are Wyrd going to address this? The longer this goes on with no official response the more it seems like this is indeed a bit of a boo-boo. The pic from gencon of all the models also makes the Ronin look to be of a bigger scale (NB not just taller) compared to the rest - look at Lady-J beside for comparison. On a side note, it would be interesting to see how many of the people who are fine with it own or will own the crew. Personally I can't see why anyone would be OK with paying for a faulty/mis-cast product with different models in a crew to different scales (blood vik and vanessa small, everyone else big), and to a different scale to the rest of the game. To me that is just shoddy product for which there is no excuse but that is merely my opinion, others are available and equally legitimate. It is quite disconcerting that this follows up Transmortis and is setting a bit of a trend. What's going to happen with Bishop and Hans? Will they be made to the bigger scale of the Ronin and aVik, or the smaller scale of bVik, Vanessa and the rest of the game? If Wyrd aren't going to address this the fluff needs to be updated to indicate that the Ronin and aVik are 6'4 macrocephalics with a Ht 3 stat. (/joke disclaimer) Someone must have noticed this prior to production so why didn't someone think' date=' 'Wait, this is wrong, we can't sell this', instead of shoving them in a box and selling them anyway. It feels dirty and greedy to me, with just a slight whiff of disrespect to the fans. [/quote'] Agreed. Edited September 8, 2013 by Manic Mouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyW Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 So the question is are Wyrd going to address this? The longer this goes on ... Give them some time to look at the issue. Models were only released for Gencon (how long ago was that again?), and aren't hitting the stores for another 3-4 weeks. I think we can now assume they are aware of the scale issue, and are deciding what their response will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 The problem, when it shows up, is not one of "This doesn't bother me", but a chorus of "This shouldn't bother you". Well, there is a fine line between "I don't really care" and "I don't really care and don't see why you should care", but yeah, I get what you mean and agree completely with that, just trying to make it clear that people that don't think it's an issue in this case are automatically just Wyrd zealots (again, transmortis.....). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Well, there is a fine line between "I don't really care" and "I don't really care and don't see why you should care", but yeah, I get what you mean and agree completely with that, just trying to make it clear that people that don't think it's an issue in this case are automatically just Wyrd zealots (again, transmortis.....). One does have to question what the point is of posting about how this isn't an issue for you. It doesn't contribute anything to getting the problem fixed for those of us for whom it is an issue. I think we should all expect better from Wyrd than this or Transmortis, even if those things don't affect or bother us personally. Edited September 8, 2013 by Manic Mouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malal Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 One does have to question what the point is of posting about how this isn't an issue for you. It doesn't contribute anything to getting the problem fixed. Well if someone's posting that it's not a problem for them they're not trying to contribute to getting the problem fixed because in their eye's it's not a problem for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerousBeans Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I don't think we can expect any replacements or anything, it must cost a fair bit to get the necessary parts tooled and cast. Some form of apology might be nice though, and perhaps an honest explanation of how they managed to get into the public hands, at full price no less. It's nice to know I'm not a lone maniac ranting about this (my local group thinks I'm mad!) but we need to be vocal about these things. As much as I love(d) Wyrd, I'll only keep supporting them if I feel they're worth supporting. I hope others feel the same. Also, I heard there as a similar issue with Kang last year, the gencon orders shipping with 'baby Kang'. Is this true and did it get rectified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've never heard of that before. My Kang came as part of a GenCon order and is normally sized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've never heard of that before. My Kang came as part of a GenCon order and is normally sized. Me too. I recall issues with some of the Dark Debt boxes plastic being "soft" with lacking detail however - not sure what happened regarding that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 To be honest I think we're best sticking to the topic at hand. Half remembered second hand anecdotes from a year ago aren't really a great basis for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 To be honest I think we're best sticking to the topic at hand. Half remembered second hand anecdotes from a year ago aren't really a great basis for discussion. I guess the question is, what can we reasonably expect Wyrd to do about this? If it's too cost prohibitive to re-cast the moulds for the box are the Hired Swords going to be oversized for the foreseeable future? Also, is the Ronin box a different sprue from the Hired Sword box and are those models to the wrong scale as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Heel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Not to derail this, but the 2012 Gencon "softness" of the Dark Debts models features seem to have been due (IMHO as an owner of many Wyrd plastics) to the plastic used in this set being mildly translucent where the others were done with opaque plastic. Everything looks fine with a black undercoat. Baby Kang was last seen in Batboy's mouth as he was captured by the NSA Xenos Team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 So I got my Viks box out of it's plastic, and I have to say it doesn't look like a massive (pardon the pun) issue to me. On the sprue pigtails Ronin's shoulders are about 2-3mm higher than those of my Oiran and a Rail Worker. Frankly this doesn't feel too out of place to me, I know women who stand one or two heads taller than each other. Also my basing technique means my models stand between 3-10mm from the top of the round plastic base, so if I need to I can easily lose some height in the basing without it looking odd. All IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzilla Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (my local group thinks I'm mad!) That has nothing to do with your feelings with regards to the viks box set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerousBeans Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Fox, I felt the same. Had seen this thread on the size issues and looking at the sprues I thought it wasn't so bad. Wasn't really until I'd built and based them that I really noticed. Of course, now it's all I notice! Been comparing them to my Yan-Lo crew, my old metals and they just about dwarf every other 30mm Ht2 model. To each their own though, if you're happy then more power to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Visual aesthetics aside,.. Does any of this change the play mechanics though? I mean, according to the rules, a ht 1 model can't be seen behind a ht 2 wall, even if it's hair, hat, or even whole head can actually be physically seen sticking up above the wall. So, it's a mm or two taller?? I guess I'm just not understanding how this affects anything in the game?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Visual aesthetics aside,.. Does any of this change the play mechanics though? I mean, according to the rules, a ht 1 model can't be seen behind a ht 2 wall, even if it's hair, hat, or even whole head can actually be physically seen sticking up above the wall. So, it's a mm or two taller?? I guess I'm just not understanding how this affects anything in the game?? Scale mismatching bugs people. You can't sweep away the aesthetics issue and ask that people solely look at this from a rules standpoint when you're asking people to buy your toy solders. Hell, aesthetics is why I haven't been recommending the $40 M2e rulebook to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzilla Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I guess I'm just not understanding how this affects anything in the game?? When its aesthetics that draw you to the game in the first place it's a big issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) It's not just the height though - they seem to have bigger proportions all round rather than simply being tall with their massive heads etc. It's not simply that they are a head taller than their contemporaries, they're also a head bigger. I haven't received mine yet (hopefully this week) so I can't really comment too much. But the pics in this thread with them beside other models make them look really out of place to my eye. Bad enough with other crews, but even in the same crew compared to Vanessa there is a BIG difference in the pics, but as we are talking about tiny small soldiers it would be hard to notice without them built and standing by each other. And no, it doesn't affect how you play the game. But it *does* look silly and is bothersome to some. It is also something that shouldn't have happened - we can all agree on this whether it personally bothers us or not - no reason why we shouldn't expect consistent scale with the computer designed models. Eugh double post! Edited September 8, 2013 by Manic Mouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arli Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 While Demoing on Friday, a guy commented on how much bigger the Hired Swords box contents were than the other 1.0 and 1.5 models on the table. He noticed this even though the Hired Swords were still on the sprue. To me, it does not matter, I love the game and love the models. A little scale creep is a small price to pay to get away from static rank and file models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackdZ Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Also, is the Ronin box a different sprue from the Hired Sword box and are those models to the wrong scale as well? I'm curious about this as well. I bought the Ronin 3 pack, as my gf (who plays Viks) liked the new models over the old ones. After showing her the pic's in this thread she's kinda worried that her new Ronin are going to look gigantic compared to the older metal mini's that make up the rest of her crew. Can anyone confirm or deny that the 3 pack Ronin are the same scale as the box set ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Considering there are many people in this world, of many sizes, it doesn't bother me a bit. That is all well and good but the pig tail Ronin looks like Andrea the Giant next to my classic metal LJ. The scale is borked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I still think Willie has the most mismatched scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Heel Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I am voting with my $ on this one. I have problems with scale-y variance generally, but it has not turned me away from any purchases previously. However, now I think I will proxy or use older models for Ronin or the Viks if I use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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