Jump to content

"There is no blank space in the book" -Justin


Recommended Posts

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Justin viewpost-right.png

Eh, there isn't any blank space in the book. I may be misunderstanding, but it seems some people would rather pieces of art be removed to pack things chalk full of rules. Which we could have done but, you know, art is cool.

Behold, blank space...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/100667162@N06/9566369129/

Want more?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Euhm, that is no place to put down rules either - that was the core of the discussion there: could the rules be better formatted/use more space. Glad they didnt use white spaces next to model cards for additional rules, that would have broken my head!

Before following the link I thought it would be the last page of the rules chapter with some white space at the end. This doesn't make much sense, imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what sense does it make that they kept the model cards (important info) actual size but blew the Upgrade cards way up and left big, gaping holes (aka blank space) in those sections?

The model info (the stuff you always use) is far more important than upgrade info. especially given the fact that most of the upgrade cards themselves are blank space.

Rather than work on the layout, they opted for a band-aid solution to the fact that they couldn't make a proper layout in time for GenCon by bloating up the upgrade sections with a generic template and artificially increasing the size of the book by many, many pages. Those pages could have been used for a far more effective presentation of the actual rules. Or the book could have been shortened by quite a bit.

This book was not ready for publication.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(Mod Hat On)

To quote Eric in a recent post;

If you are rude, mean, offensive or inflammatory in any post, you will automatically be banned for 1 day from the forums. It doesn't matter if you're criticizing or supporting Wyrd/Malifaux. If you get banned 3 times over any 30 day period, the third ban will be PERMANENT.

Careful guys. Discuss the topic at hand all you want, but don't make me wield my sparkly new Ban-hammer because you're unwilling to play nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I do not have the book, from the pictures linked in the first post, it really does look like a pretty poor layout.

But, lets be real for a second, everyone is aware that the schedule was tight, the rules have been playtested to the last possible second, so the fact that the book has been printed in time for Gencon is a miracle by itself!

If you ask me, I would much rather have a bad layout than bad rules. This way, the whole community participated in making the rules best that can be, given the situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's done is done, however poorly the end result may be. Maybe take this as a lesson not to playtest things up to the last minute. Maybe release new books every other Gencon and release Wyrd imprint games, such as Ebo, Showdown, etc., on the off years. By all means, keep bringing out new miniatures, maybe even reviving the Twisted line and the discontinued models like the bowling vampire, keep running Gencon tournaments and story campaigns, but slow down, take your time, and plan much farther ahead. Stop putting so many irons in the fire, and work on one project until completion before moving forward with the next one.

Like I've said before, we would have been happy with Through the Breach, box sets like U of T, and re-releases in plastic. Sell us the next book and the Arsenal packs at next year's Gencon. If wave 2 is supposed to hit around January, to reach people by February, that's more months that the playtesting for M2E has taken away from developing anything for next Gencon. Unless resources get spread thin again.

What's that wonderful line teachers use on report cards: Has potential, but doesn't apply himself.

Let's live up to that potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that's all people are complaining about, then I'm not seeing it... Could it be formatted better? Probably - I'm not a graphic designer though...

Can I used this book for what its for? Yes.

Honestly, as a "serious" player of games, I'm much more excited by an index that's actually usable, than what it looks like - and as far as I can see, it looks pretty good too...

A real case of 'first world problems' here...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand the complaints of the layout.

You read the words in the book to understand the new rules. Every time after that, you reference the beginning of the book to set up a game, where there is no blank space. There is really no reason to ever go past page 91 after you've read through the rest once.

(I really want a new small rulebook)

((And an updated version of the Malifaux campaign))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, that is some pretty bad layout and it's asking to have another upgrade card to cover that void or bigger art. Still definitely isn't a breaking point for me. Still, that's 7 pages at most unless Disgruntled wants to share more of it, so yeah, not the best of layouts, but certainly not the horrible trainwreck some people make it want to look like.

As for the usual "THEY RUSHED TO EVERYTHING!" this seems more to me like shoddy book design, the designar had to know from the start of the beta how many cards he had to jam in every page and have a very decent idea of what art he could use to fill spaces. So yeah, lets stop associating every single fault to "THEY RUSHED IT!"

Anyway, I'm still not sure if I actually want the book, having the rules on the tablet has been very comfortable in the core sense and I'm still hoping for the mini rule book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for showing us some pages of the book.

So if they're having all of the Upgrade cards sectioned into two-page spreads per Master, with another for generics? I like it; one of the difficulties I first had in the beta was organising the Upgrades in my head in terms of generic, henchman and Master-specific ones. It's nice to think of turning to a page and seeing all of the Pandora Upgrades.

The question does then remain if there would be a batter way to do it. Five cards seems a bit much to me for one A4 page, and it's difficult to cover an entire page with the left-over card and one piece of art. Seems functional, reasonable and new-player friendly to me, but I guess a professional designer would have a more valid opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you'd told me when M2e was announced that a week after the game was released one of the biggest concerns was that some of the pages had gaps with unused space on them, I think I'd have jumped for joy.

Let's be honest, this isn't going to be a deal breaker for the overwhelming majority of people. Could the rulebook be better? Probably, but there are plenty of fun and successful games out there that have much bigger rulebook issues than this.

Malifaux is an amazing game, let's not loose sight of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't gotten my book yet, but I have read a lot of "book quality" discussion. I'll say this: I'd rather have a book with rushed layout and quality rules than the opposite.

Wyrd put the book together under what was probably an incredible time crunch, to make sure we have it well in time of Wave 2, which in turn will let them get M2E ready to deploy by the start of 2014. I think its fair to cut them some slack if the rulebook has some layout issues.

And lets be real: the second Wyrd releases a M2E pocket rulebook everyone is just going to ditch the full rulebook anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for showing us some pages of the book.

So if they're having all of the Upgrade cards sectioned into two-page spreads per Master, with another for generics? I like it; one of the difficulties I first had in the beta was organising the Upgrades in my head in terms of generic, henchman and Master-specific ones. It's nice to think of turning to a page and seeing all of the Pandora Upgrades.

The Upgrades are organized into two-page spreads for each master or for generic Upgrades. I like that layout decision. It results in an easier access to the information, and easier categorization of the Upgrade information. I am glad that they did not cram all the upgrades into as few pages as possible. Perhaps they could have put the master and her or his upgrades on a two-page spread, but that also might have been a bit cramped.

In summary, I am happy with the layout from an informational perspective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Layouts that do not harm my ability to read and understand the content do not bother me at all.

I've not really heard anyone say that understanding the rules was impacted by the layout, so for me this is not an issue. But I can understand if more aesthetically inclined folks are bothered.

I found the first book to be one of the most difficult game books to navigate for rules that I have ever had, so I suspect that this book will be leaps and bounds above that one. (Despite how much I also LOVED the fluff sections)

But I gotta say that the defense of the "time crunch" they were under is ringing pretty hollow to my ears at this point as it was SELF-IMPOSED.

Edited by PierceSternum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you'd told me when M2e was announced that a week after the game was released one of the biggest concerns was that some of the pages had gaps with unused space on them, I think I'd have jumped for joy.

Let's be honest, this isn't going to be a deal breaker for the overwhelming majority of people. Could the rulebook be better? Probably, but there are plenty of fun and successful games out there that have much bigger rulebook issues than this.

Malifaux is an amazing game, let's not loose sight of that.

Agreed as long as the games good Its not going to stop people buying :)

In hindsight I do think the public beta should have been started and then closed 1 month earlier and also giving the design team an extra week or two put aside for purely proofreading and layout amendment work.

Having said that, Typos and errata seem to be (unfortunately) just part of the way things are these days and its not just Wyrd rushing stuff - I work in the UK construction industry and trust me rushing a book is nothing compared to some of things big name contractors rush.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It bothers me mostly because it feels like wasted space, which as someone who has trained in design offends my sense of balance. They could have moved another card over to the second page, and added another piece of art in, or made the cards a bit smaller and had a full page of art on each page.

That being said, and not having gotten my copy of the book, if the book makes it easy to find the things I need to find and is organized in such a way that it both makes sense and has a functional index, then the layout is really a minor issue. it could be better, yes, but it could be worse.

---------- Post added at 07:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 AM ----------

I like white space, but it is only interesting when it has objects to move around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if they moved a card over from another page then it breaks "Page of Generics" then "Page of {Specific Model Type}" Upgrades. Changing the size would make them nice and small, which I dont want if Im quickly flipping through the book.

I want big, 4 to a page upgrades, sorted by how I use them. Hey, I got what I wanted!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if they moved a card over from another page then it breaks "Page of Generics" then "Page of {Specific Model Type}" Upgrades. Changing the size would make them nice and small, which I dont want if Im quickly flipping through the book.

I want big, 4 to a page upgrades, sorted by how I use them. Hey, I got what I wanted!

I think Draco meant moving one of the upgrades from the first generic page to the second and the new small blank being used for another piece of art. Still gives you the same info but gives more balance to the whole lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Draco meant moving one of the upgrades from the first generic page to the second and the new small blank being used for another piece of art. Still gives you the same info but gives more balance to the whole lot.

Yeah, this is what I meant. sorry if I wasn't clear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information