M2E Viks

[parich]

So I'm pretty new to the Viks, and have found myself with some major trouble keeping them alive.  Well them, and Vanessa.  I've tried just keeping them  out of LOS, but then they don't have LOS for their attacks and seem to just waste AP if they can't go out an be killy.  Does it really all come down to using the Student/Sisters in Spirit Upgrade to move Viks around at the right moment?  What are good additions to the crew that offer some more staying power?    

[Kadeton]

It really depends on what you're up against. The Viks can have a pretty large threat range, and against most opponents should be doing so much damage on the alpha-strike that it's difficult to retaliate effectively.

 

I used to use the Student extensively, but now I've largely switched to the Malifaux Child. The Child can hide in the backfield and cast Sisters in Fury, and can also come through with a heal sometimes. If you're already using Vanessa it's far less useful (she can do that job much better), and you can probably forego a totem altogether - the Student can be nice sometimes, but her (2) to give Fast is generally less flexible than just giving several models Oathkeeper, and she's expensive.

 

I assume from what you're saying that it's mostly ranged crews you're having trouble with, so probably Guild - perhaps more specifically Perdita's Family? They can shoot you down pretty fast. In general, my advice would be to try to engineer situations where they're encouraged to come to you (due to schemes, strategy etc) and to make good use of Defensive Stance and Ash's (0) that boosts Df - the Viks are pretty damn hard to hit when they choose to be. Dense terrain can be helpful, especially if you also took the Scramble upgrade on Blood. Don't be afraid to burn high cards to force the opponent to cheat high or miss. Save your soulstones for prevention, unless the opponent focuses an attack - cheatable damage flips generally mean dead Viks.

 

Wait for your moment, and strike hard - my decisive turn (usually 2 or 3, depending on opportunities) generally involves casting Sisters in Fury (with either the Child or Vanessa), burning Oathkeeper on Blood, and charging into a pack of (at least three) enemies up to 15" away (17" with Scramble), making three attacks with minimum damage 5 and burning stones for Whirlwinds. The enemy gets 1-2 activations to respond, then gets hit by Ash doing something similar (using Dragon's Bite rather than charging, if range allows). Generally there's only mopping-up left to do after that.

 

If you're struggling with a particular matchup, let us know and we'll give some more tailored strategies. You can do perfectly well against any opponent just using the basic box plus Vanessa, so don't stress too much about expanding to other models (though if you want to expand, Bishop makes a very nice replacement for Taelor, and Hans can be quite useful against shooty opponents).

[parich]

Thanks Kadeton!  For some reason I assumed that the Student was an auto include, so I'm glad to know this isn't the case.  Using Vanessa to cast Sisters in Fury (or the other buffs) also makes a ton more sense than using the Viks' AP for the same result.  I always felt I spent a lot of AP to set up strong attacks, but then didn't have any left to use them.  I also need to experiment with Oathkeeper...  Very eager to get them on the table again.

[doubledragon]

Hey guys,

I'm relatively new to the Viks, so I'm here looking for some advice

What are the best combinations of upgrades to equip Ash, Blood and Vanessa with? Including the obvious upgrades such as survivalist, scramble, oathbreaker, sisters in spirit, synchronised slaying, mark of shezuul and any others that are worthwhile that I might have missed out.

Also, I wanna put together a kick ass crew that includes Killjoy (cos he's just so damn cool). I was thinking along the lines of:

Viktoria

Blood Vik

Vanessa

Ronin

Ronin

Ronin/Trapper

Desperate Merc

Killjoy

Thanks guys!

[twee]

Let me add more specific Q to the above: does anybody exploit Howling Wolf Tattoo?

with lots of rapid fire and flurry? what minion and when would benefit most of becoming a Sister for a while?

[Kadeton]

As a kind of default crew build, I've found the following upgrades work very well:

 

Ash -

Synchronised Slaying

Sisters in Spirit

Oathkeeper

 

Blood -

Mark of Shez'uul

Oathkeeper

 

Vanessa -

Sisters in Fury

 

If you're tight on points, I'd suggest dropping Sisters in Spirit, and Synchronised Slaying if you're desperate. If you're not expecting a huge amount of Armor, Hard to Kill, Hard to Wound or Incorporeal (such as when facing most Gremlin, Ten Thunders or Neverborn crews) you can also drop Mark of Shez'uul, or replace it with Scramble for a huge threat range. I would always recommend Oathkeeper as your first upgrade on both Viktorias - that one turn of Fast generally decides the whole game.

 

Killjoy is very cool, and the Desperate Mercenary is a decent delivery mechanism for him (though a Malifaux Rat would be cheaper). I wouldn't say he's an optimal choice for Viktoria (he's mainly about killing, and they've got killing totally covered already) but he's very hard to ignore, which can give your opponent target-priority problems. He'd be most effective in games where the Strategy and Schemes encourage lots of killing.

 

Twee: You can definitely get a lot of value out of Howling Wolf Tattoo, but it's best to build your crew specifically with it in mind - I'd recommend Bishop, Convict Gunslingers, and lots of Ronin (and not much else). In Reconnoiter in particular, I find it's very effective to take lots of Ronin and spread out - as objective-chasers go they're not the fastest, but they can hold their own against basically anything of similar (and often much higher) value, so they're great at controlling territory. However, if I were struggling to scrape points together, it's probably the first upgrade I'd drop - it's pretty rare that you won't have enough low cards in hand to discard for Flurry and Rapid Fire as needed.

 

I've never discarded the upgrade to make a minion a Sister. It's never seemed worth it.

[twee]

Hey KADETON!  Ich habe angst das I am afraid Vanessa can't take the Fury upgrade (Restr-s: Viktoria of Blood or Viktoria of Ash, Rare 1)!

As to Howling Wolf Tattoo I had had the same understanding of its usefulness..

[Kadeton]

Ah, wups. I was remembering it as a Sister upgrade. I shouldn't really answer these questions at work.

 

I generally take it on Ash and then have a Malifaux Child cast it for me, because I don't usually take Vanessa. I'll have another look through once I get home.

[doubledragon]

Thanks Kadeton! Those are some really useful tips. And the malifaux rat suggestion for killjoy is great!

[twee]

Is it worth considering hitting your own model to trigger Whirlwind? Is it possible to do at all?

[Ryoken]

It is possible, but worth it is another story.  If you used "Sisters in Fury" your light dmg is 5.  That is a lot of dmg to drop to just trigger Whirlwind.  If you have a Malifaux Rat in position, or a Desperate Merc, it might be worth it.  The Rat is only 2 points, the DM has "Take this to my son" and will get you an extra SS back.  

[twee]

I think of Vanessa

[twee]

 she's near during Dragon actions,  dmg 3 should not become a big deal for her as she has 8 wounds and there are higher priority targets for involved enemy models

[Myth]

When looking for more durability, I often take Survivalist on Viktoria. The Viks have a pretty incredible recovery ability (between shared healing, and free healing when Blood kills stuff) - the weakness is getting killed off before you get the chance to recover, and Hard to Kill helps with that quite a bit. I still tend to burn a lot of SS keeping them alive - but if you can buy even a single turn in the midst of the enemy, that is often enough to really shred the enemy crew.

 

I tend to always bring Vanessa and the Student, though I've definitely looked at the Child as a good option. Hannah can also be an option - a bonus card is nice, and she can potentially cast Sister buffs if they are on Blood. Another neat trick I found is bringing a Void Wretch, and having it bury one of the Viktorias. Then, you just need to kill off an enemy model, and your second Viktoria can pop up right in the enemy crew.

 

I've generally run the Viktorias with one of two lists. Either I have a list entirely focused around the Sisters and supporting them - with the goal of just getting them across the table as quickly as possible, and keeping them buffed and alive - or I run a list with a bunch of other solid threats. You basically are getting two scary models for the price of one, with the Viks, so doubling down on that and focusing on maximum threat saturation can be effective. Having a couple heavy hitters like Bishop and Lazarus, along with the most cost-effective threats you can fit in the crew (like Johan), and the opponent will have a tough time choosing who to go after. Especially with bigger models like Lazarus and the Strongarm Suit, the Viks can potentially hide behind them and let the more durable models lead the charge.

[Kadeton]

It's possible to do, but you generally won't be in a situation where it's worth doing. Since it's after damaging, and you're generally doing minimum damage of 5, you're going to take a big chunk out of a friendly model... and it's usually just not that hard to hit enemy models when you've got Ml 7/8. If it would be hard to hit them, your Whirlwind would probably miss anyway.

 

I could envision some crazy scenario in which you hit and kill one of your own models to trigger a Whirlwind and unleash Killjoy at the same time, maybe. I don't think it's a situation that would come up in play very often.

[Druso]

I play three games last week, two against Jack Daw and one against Seamus, i didn´t use Student of Conflict...i dind´t miss her in Reckoning. I pick 2 oathkeeper instead and i like it.