M2E Viks

[Dracomax]

Masamune's a swordsmith, having more than one Masamune sword makes perfect sense.

Well, probably not given how rare Masamune forged swords are, and how long it has been since He lived, even in the timeline of malifaux. The additional swords are probably channels for the Viktoria Masamune's* magic, rather than actual Masamunes themselves. Honestly, given what we do know of the fluff, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Masamune in question is actually a Murasama.

*In our world, Masamune is the name of a swordsman who lived c.1264–1343 AD and is widely recognised as the greatest swordsmith in Japanese history. It has become habit to refer to the swords he forged by his name, with the distinction of which Masamune forged sword being made by association with a family or famous person. His name has, in fact, become so synonymous with quality swordsmithing that at some point, it became common, especially in fiction, to refer to any sword of the highest caliber as a Masamune, even if it were not truly forged by Masamune himself. There are known to have been at least 61 swords forged by Masamune, although most have dissapeared in the years since his death, either lost, broken, or left to rust on the field of battle.

Ironically for Malifaux, Masamune swords have a tradition of being "holy" swords, with powers of healing. Muramasa forged swords, on the other hand, have a reputation for being bloodthirsty and demonic.

[some_scrub]

I found a fun trick in my last game with them. I set up Sword Vik for the usual turn 1 nova charge (via Student of Conflict, Oath Keeper, Scramble, etc). Before I launched her, however, I had a Void Wretch bury Master Vik.

This sounds pretty cool, but I have a few questions about how this all works. It seems like you should be able to move Sword Vik ~6 inches with the Student of Conflict + 15 more from a walk and a charge with Scramble and Fast from Oathkeeper. That's 21 inches (which is still crazy far) but I'm wondering if there's some other piece I'm missing.

I was also wondering whether or not there's anything in the rulebook about the timing of effects that are "triggered" simultaneously. I don't remember anything, but it seems relevant here. If Sword Vik kills a model, ideally you'd be able to unbury Gun Vik before Into the Fray ability happens, so that you can heal the 2 damage on Gun Vik (from the Void Wretch's attack) with Sword Vik's Fates Entwined.

Finally, I'm looking for some "Getting Started" advice since totally new to the Viks and fairly new to Malifaux in general (I played maybe 6 or so real games in 1.5 with Rasputina and a bit with her during the beta). I have the metal Viks box plus 3 Ronin and Student of Conflict, plus the Tara box from Gencon, and I'm looking forward to getting some games in with the Viks this weekend. Are there some common upgrade configurations or particular synergies I should keep in mind? Are there any schemes that the Viks seem particularly well suited to tackling in general (since of course everything depends on your playstyle and your opponent's crew)? Are there any other models I should think about picking up? (For example, I've noticed that lots of people seem to run a Convict Gunslinger in M2E.)

[Gorbad]

I'd suggest just satarting with the Viks, Student and a couple of Ronin. That seems to be the base crew. The upgrades depends a bit more on what you need, oathkeeper is really good on anyone who can take it, and the sister specific ones are very good for the crew as well. I'd just experiment a bit with those to see which ones fit your style.

The Viks are obviously good at Make them suffer, and Murder Protege. But they are also quite speedy and have access to models that will let them do anything with practice. I would focus on learning the interaction between the sister models and the conditions that play off that initially. That's going to be a big part of using the crew well. Learning the ins and outs of the schemes I'd actually place after that on the to do list.

[SoulG]

@Some_Scrub: Melee Range makes for 23". The trick is to not do it as your first activation, but a latter one. Hannah can also increase the range by a few inches. Presumably your opponent will move forward and activate. Do not, under any circumstances, throw the Vikkies into an unactivated Crew without support. This means you'll want your model count high, which can be accomplished with Ronin / Desperate Mercenaries / Void Wretches or, if you are using Wave 2, some of Hamelin's models.

Hrm... with Wave 2

Open Spoiler

6 Viktoria of Ashes, Cache 7

0 Viktoria of Blood

+2 Scramble

+2 Mark of the Shiz

6 Freikorps Trapper

6 Freikorps Trapper

4 Void Wretch

4 Obedient Wretch

2 Malifaux Rat

2 Malifaux Rat

2 Malifaux Rat

That's 30ss, leaving 20 more. Enough for some upgrades and 2-3 more models. Probably Vanessa and either Strongarm or Lazarus. Will have to check this list out in a playtest battle.

Edited November 7, 2013 by SoulG

[Gnas]

I really don't want to come in and complain again, but I still don't at all understand how anybody can call the Viktorias a glass cannon. In ten games against the Viks in M2e I haven't managed to kill a single Viktoria one time.

I've used Rasputina, Tara, Lucius, and Hamelin. Twice I have managed to accumulate 6 wounds on one or the other, but never the mythical seventh wound. Before I know it they're healed to full health and I have to start all over again... And it will only be worse when Vanessa comes out.

I've never had the luck to kill one with instant death, I've paralyzed them, slowed them, blasted them, heavy meleed them, heavy castes them, heavy shot them, lured them, attempted to bury them (never successfully).

Heck, tonight in a game I attacked Viktoria of Ash three times with Tara in melee and twice from various ranged sources causing one total damage. Then I also attacked Viktoria of Blood something like 14 times with Tara, twice with Void Wretches, and once at range with a death marshal, causing six total wounds. She didn't even get healed and I only flipped the black joker once on an attack. Just soul stones for damage prevention and defense.

Seven total damage between two Viktorias from 22 attacks.

Please explain how they're a glass cannon.

[Malharath]

Just soul stones for damage prevention and defense.

Seven total damage between two Viktorias from 22 attacks.

Please explain how they're a glass cannon.

If your opponent is stoning away damage, and grabbing defense buffs, thats less stones to whirlwind with.

Apart from that, it sounds like you would have no luck, if it wasn't for bad luck. I have even killed my own Master Vik before with the henchy in one hit.

[Gnas]

Well, yes on this particular night the flips weren't falling my way a lot of the time and even my hands weren't much better. But I've had games too where I felt like I was flipping amazingly and still there was little or no damage.

[theJudge]

You are attacking them with lower powered models and you must be timing your attacks incorrectly. Target each Vik when they do not get the +ve flip on defense and when you have a decent control hand.

In all of Malifaux the Viks are one of the easier to kill.

[MasterDisaster]

In all of Malifaux the Viks are one of the easier to kill.

This is true to a certain extent but as they are outcasts you can put Survivalist on Vik of Ashes and then get FK Librarians to healer her which then in turn heals the same amount to all other Sisters. I find this incredibly useful, especially with the healing from Survivalist. It also adds a little protection from the HtK. They work great together or apart but I find it often better to keep them closer together and tag team them with Synchronized Slaying. Just try to throw them into stuff that you know they will kill or that has already activated to minimize the backlash they will receive after throw a whirlwind or two out there.

[AndyW]

I mostly play the Viks, and my opponent generally doesn't have a hard time killing them. Its killing them before they unload that can be problematic.

7 wounds means a minion can happily kill them unless soulstones are used. Against models with crit strike (e.g. Death Marshalls) a damage track of 2/3/4 is scary, as they can die to two weak strikes, all it takes is to cheat in 1 ram on the attack.

If the Viks are ignored while they set up, then the opponents model count drops dramatically on turn 2/3 making the opponents life very difficult.

[parich]

I've been thinking about starting in on a new crew (I usually play Seamus) and have been eying the Viks for their totally different look and play style. I'm not a very skilled player, and was wondering what the learning curve looked like on these? Also, the local group usually plays right around 50ss and I think the box with max upgrades/stones comes in a little short. Any advice on what other models would be a good compliment?

[greenstuff_gav]

i played my first M2 game with the viks at 25ss; no fancy upgrades, no interesting tactics, just the viks, 3 ronin and 2 convicts; you use the ronin to draw out stuff, convicts to shoot stuff, one vik shoots, the other keeps LoS and goes berzerk in melee

[Kadeton]

I really don't want to come in and complain again, but I still don't at all understand how anybody can call the Viktorias a glass cannon. In ten games against the Viks in M2e I haven't managed to kill a single Viktoria one time.

Please explain how they're a glass cannon.

I'm not entirely in agreement with the "glass cannon" descriptor either, but Viktoria is definitely one of the easier Masters to kill. Weight of attacks will bring her (and her sister) down very quickly, as long as you can get them to connect. Once you've burned through their defensive soulstones, the Viks get dropped quicker than a mic at a poetry slam.

Of the Masters you listed, Rasputina should have the easiest time of it - you don't need to attack either Viktoria directly, just bounce December's Curse blasts off other targets (including friendlies, which then explode for more damage).

The Tara game you mentioned showed a tactical deficiency, in my opinion, in that all the models you mention have pretty low-Cb/Sh attacks. Where were your heavy hitters? (If you say "Dead," then I think you need to work on your Tara strategies - those guys should be untouchable until they're ready to claw someone's face off.)

Hamelin and Lucius are both at a bit of a disadvantage against Viktoria, because they rely so heavily on numerous weak minions which the Sisters absolutely love to slaughter. That doesn't mean you can't win those matchups by any stretch, but it will definitely be a tough fight.

Long story short: it sounds like there was quite a bit of good luck on your opponent's side, and given a bit of good luck (good damage prevention flips in particular) Viktoria can be very strong. However, given the same luck, you would have had basically the same or less impact on practically any other Master in the game - all Masters are super-tough compared to other models, but some are way tougher than others, and Viktoria is right on the bottom end of that spectrum.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

I've been thinking about starting in on a new crew (I usually play Seamus) and have been eying the Viks for their totally different look and play style. I'm not a very skilled player, and was wondering what the learning curve looked like on these? Also, the local group usually plays right around 50ss and I think the box with max upgrades/stones comes in a little short. Any advice on what other models would be a good compliment?

Viktoria's learning curve is initially a little steeper than most Masters, because she's very unforgiving of mistakes. If you put one of the Sisters in the wrong position, activate them at the wrong time, or fail to keep their momentum going... they'll just die.

Once you work out how to keep them alive (basic placement, activation control etc - should only take a few games) they level right out and you can get down to the business of chopping everything in sight to pieces. Then, once you're comfortable with them, there's a slower but more rewarding upward curve while you work out how to control the shape and flow of the game with Dragon actions (which you'll probably initially ignore) and the way their play changes depending on whether they're together or apart, as well as the usual process of working out the best crew composition for specific goals, matchups and synergies.

They're lots of fun, and once you've got a feel for them, they float like butterflies and sting like tactical nuclear weapons.

[Malharath]

Once you work out how to keep them alive (basic placement, activation control etc - should only take a few games) they level right out and you can get down to the business of chopping everything in sight to pieces. Then, once you're comfortable with them, there's a slower but more rewarding upward curve while you work out how to control the shape and flow of the game with Dragon actions (which you'll probably initially ignore) and the way their play changes depending on whether they're together or apart, as well as the usual process of working out the best crew composition for specific goals, matchups and synergies.

They're lots of fun, and once you've got a feel for them, they float like butterflies and sting like tactical nuclear weapons.

This. My first M2E game with Viks was like having two headless ninja chickens. The I was thinking about the crew, and had an epiphany about the Dragon abilities. Now it is a lot more interesting.

[MasterDisaster]

I agree. The Viks are fairly easy to learn and can be slightly harder to master but I started with the Viks in M2E and they really force you to learn activation control and this can translate into any crew. They are incredibly unforgiving though so expect to lose them if you don't be careful.

[Malharath]

Have a real quick query. The Sword Vik's Dragon ability. If you kill the target, of the attacks granted, you can't move can you, as the last line says "target". I ran across this, and just thought I would bring it up, either to be corrected or bring to light for the new players.

[Orka]

Just had my first game of Malifaux last night - Took it's time, lots of looking up rules etc. I have a few questions I hope you guys can help me with

 

1) Regarding the Viktoria of Ashes "Dragons Bite" ability, it says that you can place all sisters within 6" in base contact with the target. Last night I had Blood Vik engaged with a model, and then 4-5" away was a model I intended to be the target of "Dragons Bite". Would that ability "disengage"  the Blood Vik safely from her previous engagement?

 

2) The Fate's Pariah + Fate's Chosen, is that only when they are on the defense - or do they also work on the offensive?

 

My 40pt list was:

Ashes

 - Howling wolf tatoo (to be able to make a ronin or taelor a sister for a turn)

 - Sisters in Fury (mostly so the Child could activate the +dmg buff)

 - Sisters in spirit (to slingshot Blood)

Blood

 - Mark of Shez'uul (Get that damage done!)

 - Scramble (Make sure she gets to her intended target)

2x Ronin

Tealor

Vanessa

Child of Malifaux

 

Any feedback would be much appreciated - but seems like a nice setup, and you get the full 7 soul-stones as well

[Drool_bucket]

Yes. Only walk actions generate disengaging strikes.

Yes, when you perform a defense or willpower duel, which is almost always when your model is being "attacked."

I much prefer the Student over the Child with my Viks. I would give it a whirl. Likewise, I prefer Oathkeeper over Scramble, but probably because I use the Student to move The Viks around.

[Pie]

Also, regarding the Howling Wolf Tattoo, you can only make a minion a sister with that.  So it works on Ronin, but not on Taelor since she's a henchman.

[Barbagianni]

I need to read the howling wolf tatoo again...and start to play it!

[Orka]

Just to make clear on that second question; a Df duel (or wp, which is needed to activate the Fate's xx ability) is ONLY when you are on the defensive?

[Drool_bucket]

not exactly.

 

A duel is defined by what statistic you are using during it.  So when one model uses it's Willpower in an opposed duel, it is a "Willpower" duel for that model.  The other model may be using a Casting stat in which that model is performing a Casting Duel

 

What that means is anytime a Vik (either one) is performing an opposed duel and using either it's Wp or Df, that Fates Pariah/Chosen ability comes into play and you check your hand size and apply the rule if the model qualifies.

 

Go check out Pandora's card, one of her attack actions is a Wp stat, which qualifies for her push if she wins it.  So she is "attacking" another model with a Willpower flip.  Kaeris (used to) have a Grab and Drop attack from an upgrade that forced the opponent to defend using their Wk (Walk) stat.  So that model was performing a Walking Duel.

 

Better?

[Ghulaf5420]

not exactly.

 

A duel is defined by what statistic you are using during it.  So when one model uses it's Willpower in an opposed duel, it is a "Willpower" duel for that model.  The other model may be using a Casting stat in which that model is performing a Casting Duel

 

What that means is anytime a Vik (either one) is performing an opposed duel and using either it's Wp or Df, that Fates Pariah/Chosen ability comes into play and you check your hand size and apply the rule if the model qualifies.

 

Go check out Pandora's card, one of her attack actions is a Wp stat, which qualifies for her push if she wins it.  So she is "attacking" another model with a Willpower flip.  Kaeris (used to) have a Grab and Drop attack from an upgrade that forced the opponent to defend using their Wk (Walk) stat.  So that model was performing a Walking Duel.

 

Better?

This actually came up in a game the other night for me.  This definitely makes it a little clearer for me, I think.  I had a Vic charge Pandora.  She used the abilitly that lets her choose Wp instead of Df for the duel.  My opponent cheated up to win the duel and Pandora was able to push the 4" away.  At least that's how we played it.  Did we get that wrong?  Should she only be allowed the push for when she attacks? 

[Fetid Strumpet]

You played it correctly. When you attack Pandora with a ML attack and she chooses to defend with WP then your model is involved in a ML duel, and therefore will not take dmg from Misery if you fail. Pandora however is participating in a WP duel (again because she choose to use her WP as her Df) and if she wins she can therefore push due to Fading Memory. Does that make sense?

[Ghulaf5420]

Yes, thanks for the quick response!