Tara crew

[Helm]

Having a hand of 3 or rubbish defence is a MASSIVE handicap. And even to do anything really good with her requires multiple steps and flips. Her saving grace is the void wretches which are pretty awesome. Oh and forget about spending the first few turns shaping your hand for that decisive turn 3/4 assault - you'll just be on the receiving end of it.

To perform well you need to win initiative and dump half your hand.

Have you tried playing her without consistently using the card-dumping Fast pulse?

Taking a look at Tara, the Reactivate ability on its own means you're using a Master with 6 general AP on most turns. There's no actual need to go overboard in terms of using the Nothing Beast and Void Wretches; they can affect Buried models and very occasionally Bury them themselves. There's not really any other synergy, barring the card-dumping ability and them being buffed against Fast models.

Knowledge of Eternity basically fixes the need to get Initiative each turn, and also gives you Pull the Void. Tara can make her friends Fast and enemies Slow, and combined with Dead of Winter Tara can be Burying her enemies pretty effectively after making them Fast.

I was worried about the effectiveness of her Fast pulse and dumping cards while theoryfauxing, but once you get her on the table and make a conscious decision to use the pulse as a single tool rather than her focus, Tara becomes much more effective. How about running her with a Void Wretch and a Ronin instead of three Void Wretches, then popping Temporal shift at the very end of the turn instead of the start? That way you only discard a card or two, and with your + to Initiative flips you can bury the Fast enemy next turn.

[Manic Mouse]

Have you tried playing her without consistently using the card-dumping Fast pulse?

Taking a look at Tara, the Reactivate ability on its own means you're using a Master with 6 general AP on most turns. There's no actual need to go overboard in terms of using the Nothing Beast and Void Wretches; they can affect Buried models and very occasionally Bury them themselves. There's not really any other synergy, barring the card-dumping ability and them being buffed against Fast models.

Knowledge of Eternity basically fixes the need to get Initiative each turn, and also gives you Pull the Void. Tara can make her friends Fast and enemies Slow, and combined with Dead of Winter Tara can be Burying her enemies pretty effectively after making them Fast.

I was worried about the effectiveness of her Fast pulse and dumping cards while theoryfauxing, but once you get her on the table and make a conscious decision to use the pulse as a single tool rather than her focus, Tara becomes much more effective. How about running her with a Void Wretch and a Ronin instead of three Void Wretches, then popping Temporal shift at the very end of the turn instead of the start? That way you only discard a card or two, and with your + to Initiative flips you can bury the Fast enemy next turn.

Knowledge of eternity helps in not losing initiative, but if your opponent flips a high card you can still lose out. That's what happened to me, and losing a 10SS model because you lost initiative doesn't feel that great, very down to chance.

If you don't use the void wretches and nothing beast then I agree, you don't need to consistently dump your hand. But stats are very important in M2E, way more than in 1.5 - a point here or there makes a big difference. Being defence 3/2 means everything will hit you unless you're very lucky. Void wretches aren't too bad because they're cheap I guess.

I agree and think the way to run an amazing Tara crew is to use her as a 6AP master and ditch the nothing beast and wretches, replace them with models that have good defence and more consistency. Then you can fast pulse at the end of the turn and wreck face the next with a full hand.

[Adran]

Knowledge of eternity helps in not losing initiative, but if your opponent flips a high card you can still lose out. That's what happened to me, and losing a 10SS model because you lost initiative doesn't feel that great, very down to chance.

If you don't use the void wretches and nothing beast then I agree, you don't need to consistently dump your hand. But stats are very important in M2E, way more than in 1.5 - a point here or there makes a big difference. Being defence 3/2 means everything will hit you unless you're very lucky. Void wretches aren't too bad because they're cheap I guess.

Not saying that you are wrong, but a Df 3 7 wound incorporial model is still not the easiest kill. Especially as you have 1 shot at that and then its a Df4 model. And if they haven't killed it in those 2 attacks and it is still being attacked then its Df5 (because you have been cheating pointlessly right?).

I disagree that stats are way more important than V1, as most of the models in v1 had to rely on stats, it was only your master that hd the option of SS a card (well and henchman, and 1 or 2 other models). That and I typically ss a 1 or a 2 when it really mattered, so learnt not to rely on a ss flip to save me.

[Manic Mouse]

Not saying that you are wrong, but a Df 3 7 wound incorporial model is still not the easiest kill. Especially as you have 1 shot at that and then its a Df4 model. And if they haven't killed it in those 2 attacks and it is still being attacked then its Df5 (because you have been cheating pointlessly right?).

I disagree that stats are way more important than V1, as most of the models in v1 had to rely on stats, it was only your master that hd the option of SS a card (well and henchman, and 1 or 2 other models). That and I typically ss a 1 or a 2 when it really mattered, so learnt not to rely on a ss flip to save me.

It's not an instant one-shot, but in my case it was being attacked by Huggy. Against Ml or Sh it should just about survive, Ca actions will nuke it. You may be right about the Nothing Beast though, I'll have to give it another chance. I don't see cheating in as a good idea with the NB though - if the cards are low you're going to take +ve flips to damage, if they're high you're wasting high cards on a low stat. Only average cards that are similar or higher than what you flipped would be useful and then you're blowing cards you could have been using for the fast pulse. Initiative is SO important for Tara, too much so IMO.

I do disagree about the stats they are WAY more important in M2E - fewer abilities in play to make up for poor stats, SS no longer additive again increases the importance of base stats.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Manic Mouse

[TarlSS]

Tara has access to Hans,Hannah,Ronin, Taelor..if you don't like NB or void wretches there are still very strong options in faction. A Fast gunline could be very nasty.

[Kalkris]

Okay, big question for you Merc users: I am making a purchase with a semi-limited budget, and I have to make the decision between having Bishop or having Killjoy in my cart at checkout. Which of the two is better for use with Tara, in either faction (I suppose I use her more as a Rezzer but the question should still apply here)? Please explain the reasoning, so I can weigh pros and cons better.

Also, note that I am NOT a proponent of the Fast pulse; in fact, I think it is more encumbering (at least in my local meta) than helpful for her and her crew. However, if Bishop proves good enough with that in mind, it might change my mind a tad.

Thank you.

~Lil Kalki

[Mister Shine]

The correct answer was wicked cool new Death Marshals

[Kalkris]

The correct answer was wicked cool new Death Marshals

I already have Nightmare DMs, so I'm good without Any other answers?

~Lil Kalki

[Mason]

I've been playing Tara, mostly as Outcasts, and am not really a big fan of Fast Pulse either. Bishop has been very good when I used him, but given the choice, I would go with Killjoy. He's just amazing with Tara as Outcasts, and I can't see him being any worse as a Resser.

[Mister Shine]

I already have Nightmare DMs, so I'm good without Any other answers?

~Lil Kalki

3 Old DMs, 2 Miss DMs, 6 New DMs. Never enough

[Kalkris]

I have been polling around and being given some sound advice before bed from HalflingSpy among others, such as A Wyrd Place on facebook, I do agree that Mindshred is right in that Killjoy is probably the way to go.

Also sideways eight Death Marshals is a good way to keep your battlefield heavy (and your wallet quite light haha). Thank you for your good spirits, Shiny. I always appreciate them.

~Lil Kalki

[Mister Shine]

3 for Tara, a pile for Lady J!

[winters_night]

Played a game today with Tara, boxset + Ronin + Taelor.

PLayed against Zoraida, 3 siliruids, Doppelganger and Bad juju.

Let me tell you.. I was wholey unimpressed with Tara's crew, there's a ton of lets slap fast, a veeeeery strong ability on enemy models so that Wretches with their crappy MI4 get + flips, and pathetically easy to pass TN13 WP duels to resist being buried so you can use Karina's burning ability and the wretches attacks.. just bleh. Lets not forget too that Karina's aura and Tara's aura regarding people being fast require them to be within 6 inches of FAST models. Karina is very fragile and Tara's I wanna go first-ness leaves her in precarious situations.

The best tactic that I had for Tara was literally going first and just shooting stuff over and over.. reactivating later in teh turn and shooting some more, Pull the void is cute for burying your own stuff.. really pathetic against enemies.

Nothing Beast was kinda cool till Doppleganger started copying Obliterate than I lost the beast in a single turn due to poison and fire thanks to the Voodoo doll.

Oh.. and GG Zoraida's WP 10 she just laughed off any glimpse the voids and the Beasts terrifying 10..

I did end up winning because I had given up on the crews mechanics and like I said just started shooting everything in-sight

Edited October 20, 2013 by winters_night

[Ausplosions]

You are doing it wrong then.

[Ausplosions]

Let me tell you.. I was wholey unimpressed with Tara's crew, there's a ton of lets slap fast, a veeeeery strong ability on enemy models so that Wretches with their crappy MI4 get + flips

Actually , I'd use it when I can tag only one or two enemy models, but when a good portion of my crew can gain it. If she is using it on her second activation, then she will probably get initiative anyway (due to her Upgrade giving to flips), meaning she and her crew can target the sole fast model to death, Or Bury it before it can use it's Fast, then on her second activation, unbury it, use it against it's own crew, with fast.

and pathetically easy to pass TN13 WP duels to resist being buried so you can use Karina's burning ability and the wretches attacks.. just bleh. Lets not forget too that Karina's aura and Tara's aura regarding people being fast require them to be within 6 inches of FAST models. Karina is very fragile and Tara's I wanna go first-ness leaves her in precarious situations.

Stop giving large numbers of the enemy Fast. Also you don't ALWAYS have to have Tara Reactivate. Again, make sure you are getting those anti-WP on Fast model Auras up if you ARE going to be giving out fast.

The best tactic that I had for Tara was literally going first and just shooting stuff over and over.. reactivating later in the turn and shooting some more, Pull the void is cute for burying your own stuff.. really pathetic against enemies.

Not the last time I put fast on a Rail Golem, Buried it, and then threw it into his own crew.

I do however have a fair bit of difficulty with this crew, not because she's rubbish, but because she requires a little more finesse, and has a higher learning curve.

I for instance always end up getting my Nothing Beast killed very early on.

[Kalkris]

I sympathize with you here, Ausplosions. I only very recently had my first loss using Tara and it had to do with a lack of finesse on my part, and a dead NB on Turn 2. Granted, my initiative flips always seem rubbish whenever I have some sort of positive modifier or my opponent has a negative one on them. Thus, it's hard to pitch my hand on things at the right time to boost my Void Wretch and Nothing Beast defenses.

Plus, I really don't find the right time to hand out Fast to anything. It seems like from Day 1 of me using her, my foes, who had virtually no idea about Tara's mechanics, were able to clump at least 3 models at a time in ideal groups before heading in, so that if Tara were to pulse Fast, they'd all benefit, making things much harder for me.

However, prior to that one loss (against Mei Feng, mind you), I had been undefeated with her for about 4 games (which, IMHO is a fine record for a new master). That said, I haven't gotten much of a chance to pick her up again due to a league that's going on now, and demos which should not have her ilk in them, etc. etc. lol

~Lil Kalki

[Ausplosions]

I have lost 3 or four games with her and drawn one.

It has more to do with me playing her like a beats tick than anything, plus two of those games were against Sonnia, so to cast didn't help.

It's the Nothing Beast I have the biggest trouble with. He is so damn easy to kill.

I wish I had have argued for more Wounds in playtest..

[Kalkris]

I have lost 3 or four games with her and drawn one.

It has more to do with me playing her like a beats tick than anything, plus two of those games were against Sonnia, so to cast didn't help.

It's the Nothing Beast I have the biggest trouble with. He is so damn easy to kill.

I wish I had have argued for more Wounds in playtest..

Lucky me, my meta is pretty free from Guild influence (knock on wood - a friend of mine is selling his Guild stuff due to financial issues and it's the whole faction sans McCabe!) so I haven't had to deal with good old Buckethead (yet *knock knock*).

But I do agree that NB should have had 2-3 more Wd or, barring that, a Df of maybe 10 or 11 to start, without its signature modifying factors...

~Lil Kalki

[luckyjoemc]

I dont know if this will help at all but when I field tara as a outcast I usually only field the NB and one Void rat. And the NB usually stays buried by tara or ideally a DM to be tossed at something end of turn when the control hand is low (after she has walked a good 12 or so inches), I fill the rest of the spots with Karina and a couple death marshals and whatever beaty or runny stuff I feel should be taging along. Like maybe a ronin or two.

And really the void rat is only there to heal if something gets beat up to badly ( bury it with a DM first)

[Ausplosions]

Void Wretches are far too good to only take one.

[Manic Mouse]

It's the Nothing Beast I have the biggest trouble with. He is so damn easy to kill.

I wish I had have argued for more Wounds in playtest..

Or a higher terrifying. He is massively easy to kill, especially if your opponent wins initiative.

I very much wish Tara had been beta tested by everyone like the other masters, I think she has suffered because of it. I've only played one game with her, but I felt like I was fighting a losing battle from the off because I took a fluff list and thus spend the first few activations trying to ditch my hand, and last few praying my opponent didn't get a headshot off. Against Seamus, with the Copycat and Sybelle, I don't think her list would work at all - either have terrible defence, or get decapitated.

TBH I think Tara works better with a few void wretches as "totems" and a non-fluff Outcast list where the rest of the models can cope with a full hand.

[Ausplosions]

I disagree she suffered because of it.

I have since learned how to use the NB.

Tara's crew are all in a great spot.

Hugely well balanced.

[Anaxiamander]

I disagree she suffered because of it.

I have since learned how to use the NB.

Tara's crew are all in a great spot.

Hugely well balanced.

Would you be able to offer a few pointers for how to treat the big Nothing? I've nearly assembled the crew, and am getting increasingly worried about that defense. Unless that was sarcasm. In which case, hats off to you, I was fooled. I mean, it's entirely possible (plausible? Likely?) that they work just fine, but I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around the thing.

[Manic Mouse]

I disagree she suffered because of it.

I have since learned how to use the NB.

Tara's crew are all in a great spot.

Hugely well balanced.

[luckyjoemc]

Firstly Void rats are Good, great at objective grabing , or if you know its going to be a non CA crew they are pretty tanky. They can also provide heals to the entire crew (provided you field DMs to box your own models) and can also negate models with fast on their turn or just hand out slow. I usually only take one and the NB because my brain tells me to ditch my whole hand just for their DF which against a large number of crews is unnecessary

Secondly NB is a monster pure and simple. The easiest way to use him? Bury his big booty after giving him fast with Pull the void, then either wait for something to die and let him wreak havoc with 4 ap, or toss him into somethings face late turn again with 4 ap. So long as he is not taking on a CA model he is going to make their life miserable , plus with his 0 action voided every time they hit him he hits back, and usually harder, plus his attacks go through incorporeal.

Also Karina at 5 points provides decent range options and an upgrade platform, Not the best but it could be worse, plus price of eternity if tara manages to pull of Temporal shift is hand/deck mill or damage. Her summons should have been 2 cards or a SS instead of the RJ but its really just a gravy ability anyway.