What am I doing wrong?

[Lussuria]

So - to begin, I'm a bit embarrassed by my painting ability as I'm new and just learning so please don't be too harsh! Haha.

With that out of the way, I would love some advice on what I'm doing wrong blending here.

My end goal would to achieve this type of candy blended coloured effect:

(Source: http://minimakeovers.wordpress.com/ )

*Disclaimer, this image is not mine and the models in this photo were not painted by me*

So what I did:

1. Did a base layer of the colour

2. Used a wash

3. Repeated base colour

4. Lightened colour ever so slightly with P3 Jack Bone and watered down, painted this everywhere but the deep recesses

5. Repeated step 4 a number of times, each time slightly lightened and reduced the amount of surface covered

6. Finally used lightened colour from maybe the 2nd or 3rd last time I lightened it into a REALLY watered down wash and did all over hoping to blend the layers down.

I tried out this technique on the Blue, Green and Brown.

Can someone give any advice on how to make this better? The colour difference between the layers is distinct, not blended at all how I'd hoped and ... just awful.

Thanks in advance!! *grin*

(Testing this technique on some dummy model I got before I go and end up ruining one of my Malifaux crew too badly!)

[Lussuria]

Additional: Don't know if this makes any difference at all, but just incase I snapped a couple of quick photos off without the flash. I notice most people don't photograph with flashes so this might...er..look more normal?

[Ratty]

Thinkness of paint is probably one of the things, you definitely need to feather the edges of your layers if you want a really smooth finish. Secondly you rarely get amazing results, highlighting up then washing. Normally it takes progressive layers of highlight, wash, highlight, wash to get a really smooth finish.

BTW your model doesn't look awful at all in the picture.

[Guy in Suit]

I think that looks excellent for a first go at 'juicing'.

You are doing it right - just practice more and use magnification to get the layers smaller and smaller until they can't be seen by the naked eye.

I see about 5 distinct shades. Imagine upping that to 10 shades each half as wide and you would have something close to what you want, methinks

[Lussuria]

Thinkness of paint is probably one of the things, you definitely need to feather the edges of your layers if you want a really smooth finish. Secondly you rarely get amazing results, highlighting up then washing. Normally it takes progressive layers of highlight, wash, highlight, wash to get a really smooth finish.

BTW your model doesn't look awful at all in the picture.

Oh thankyou so much! May I ask what you mean by feathering the edges of the layers? I would definitely love to try!

And yea, the reason I used a light (but very watered down) wash at the end is that I've noticed a lot of people on this forum say 'and then I washed over it to bring all the layers together' so I assumed that this was what they were meaning - but I'm actually not sure what they are normally referring to? Maybe a matte medium or something?

I think that looks excellent for a first go at 'juicing'.

You are doing it right - just practice more and use magnification to get the layers smaller and smaller until they can't be seen by the naked eye.

I see about 5 distinct shades. Imagine upping that to 10 shades each half as wide and you would have something close to what you want, methinks

Thankyou thankyou!! Yes, you would be correct on there being approximately 5 layers. Eeep! 10! I never realised so many layers were used!! And a magnifier! I didn't think of that. What a brilliant idea. Will invest in one when I go nest to buy some new paintbrushes

Edited August 1, 2013 by Lussuria

[Demonn Agram]

I agree about the thickness of paint. try and dilute it more. so your layers aren't thick. with watered down paint you can acchieve the transition from darker to lighter shade more progressively and without those "stark" lines in between layers. it is quite tricky, though, to get the hang of how much to water down the paint...

also, if you do opt to get a magnifying glass - make sure you get a really big one so your hands fit inside the glass when painting. Otherwise, you'll see the tip of your brush and the mini enlarged and the rest of the brush and your hand normally - that will make aiming really really difficult...

oh, and keep us informed how you get on!

[CRC]

When using large numbers of layers, you don't usually mix different shades for each layer.

The sequence is more like:

1. apply a base coat

2. wash the recesses

3. apply 5-10 layers of the mid tone, each layer covering a slightly smaller area

4. apply 5-10 layers of the highlight, starting with the "smaller" above, and getting even smaller.

5. done.

You should be diluting your paints somewhere between 5:1 to 10:1 with water (or other additives), and each layer should be sufficiently thin that you can barely make out the colour. Since they're thin both in pigment and in total amount of liquid applied, they should dry in 10-15 seconds per layer, so 10 layers is only about 2-3 minutes.

Alternatively, you can try wet-blending. It's an entirely different technique, but might get you the sorts of results you're looking for.

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------

Also, on feathering:

When you paint, normally there's a hard line where between where you painted and where you didn't. There are a couple ways to disrupt those lines, and those techniques are collectively called "feathering".

The easiest one is to paint perpendicular to the direction of the highlight. So, if you have a left-right ridge, instead of painting with a single left-right stroke, you paint with a dozen down-up strokes. Since you don't place every stroke in exactly the same position, that breaks up the horizontal lines.

The next easiest one is to use two brushes. One to paint the highlight, and another (with only water in it) to do a second pass, doing the up-down strokes to break up the line.

[Lussuria]

I agree about the thickness of paint. try and dilute it more. so your layers aren't thick. with watered down paint you can acchieve the transition from darker to lighter shade more progressively and without those "stark" lines in between layers. it is quite tricky, though, to get the hang of how much to water down the paint...

also, if you do opt to get a magnifying glass - make sure you get a really big one so your hands fit inside the glass when painting. Otherwise, you'll see the tip of your brush and the mini enlarged and the rest of the brush and your hand normally - that will make aiming really really difficult...

oh, and keep us informed how you get on!

Thanks so much for your advice

I think I must be doing something wrong when I'm thinning layers as this is the most common piece of advice I receive but with how watered down and next to no fluid coming off the paint brush when I drag it across towel before use it still doesn't seem to change hahaha. What is the best technique for keeping the layers thin?

I just can't seem to get it

Oh I never even considered seeing my hands in the magnifier.will keep that in mind! Thankee *grin*

---------- Post added at 03:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 AM ----------

The sequence is more like:

1. apply a base coat

2. wash the recesses

3. apply 5-10 layers of the mid tone, each layer covering a slightly smaller area

4. apply 5-10 layers of the highlight, starting with the "smaller" above, and getting even smaller.

5. done.

You should be diluting your paints somewhere between 5:1 to 10:1 with water (or other additives), and each layer should be sufficiently thin that you can barely make out the colour.

Alternatively, you can try wet-blending. It's an entirely different technique, but might get you the sorts of results you're looking for.

Also, on feathering:

When you paint, normally there's a hard line where between where you painted and where you didn't. There are a couple ways to disrupt those lines, and those techniques are collectively called "feathering".....

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I had no idea that the same colour was used in multiple "layers". I always thought it must have been a lot of very slightly lightened layers! I will definitely be testing this out!

Yea, I was watering the colour down A LOT, almost to the point that there was barely any colour at all coming off of my paint brush but still didn't seem to work. I'm hoping making myself a wet palette might help this but...I must be doing this wrong. Might see if there's a few youtube videos showing what it's supposed to look like.

I was reading about wet blending. I do want to give it a go, but it also seems more like a "Use with caution" type technique. This one seems a little more...manageable for me heheehe.

And thankyou for the info on feathering. That's cleared up a lot! I am going to strip this guy back to the metal and repaint him trying all these new things. Thankyou *grin* !

[Bruglyother]

A suggestion regarding the magnifier is to get a jeweler's visor. It has two lenses, one for each eye. This helps to maintain depth perception.

[harbinger]

You really dont have anything to be ashamed over. Work your producing is quite fine.

Dont get yourself down trying to compare yourself to masters out there and asking why not living up to them. Lot these guys have years of practice. And practice is what takes.. mini after mini after mini...

Also keep in mind when you see painters talking about washes it can be way two different animals between the "masters" and layman. Lot us (not saying you..) hear word wash and think of the insta skill bottle of magic. While those little plastic gems of fluid can really take average guys work to next level; I dont think many of pros are using same thing as wash. For them has to do with way they dilute paint and layer. Ratty used the magic word... feathering. Thats where they get them ultra smooth looking works. Skillfully feathering edges between layers so the eye doesnt notice the actual gradient as the color shifts. We look at it and see the over all effect. Not going get that by tossing down ink/washes to attempt to blend them together.

*****

Another thing keep in mind... pics like one you posted are professionally done (talking about techniques used not that have to have a photographic artist taking.) Proper lighting using lightboxes and such, as well as some touch up work after shot taken.. Going produce quite different result then guy with a mini in his hand and average person cam/phone.

Edited August 1, 2013 by harbinger

[Baffo]

Besides layering thinned out paint in 10+ layers there are a few quicker techniques to get smooth gradients: oil paint washes/feathering and powdered pigments.

In short: you can use oil paints over acrylics (seal them with gloss varnish before applying oil paints) to apply the oil paint in the recesses of the model, wait 10-15 minutes for the solvent (white spirit usually) to evaporate and use a dry brush to 'feather' the paint from the recess outwards creating a smooth gradient.

Dry pigment powders (this is not weathering pigments but more often artist pastels ground into powder and lightly applied with a dry brush; the fixed into place with pigment medium or varnish)

It is difficult to explain fully just in words so here are a few links:

Some of my examples of oil paints on models (scroll down toward the end of each article to see the painted model):

- Painted Ghetorix

- Painted shifting stones

Video tutorials that I learned these tricks from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLFID0cxkE0

Hope that helps, Cheers:)

[Schumann]

Also, for two brush blending, this video inspired me a lot.

[Webmonkey]

And I highly recommend using pastel powders. The gradual fade is much smoother. I too, have problem with the "step/line" from one layer of paint to the next. Always seems that no matter how many layers I do or how thin I make the paint, there's always a "step/line" in the color. The pastels have really helped me out with this.

Just my two cents.

[Lussuria]

A suggestion regarding the magnifier is to get a jeweler's visor. It has two lenses, one for each eye. This helps to maintain depth perception.

Thanks so much!! One I could wear would be preferrable for ease of movement - but I wonder where I would pick up one of those?

You really dont have anything to be ashamed over. Work your producing is quite fine.

Dont get yourself down trying to compare yourself to masters out there and asking why not living up to them. Lot these guys have years of practice. And practice is what takes.. mini after mini after mini...

Also keep in mind when you see painters talking about washes it can be way two different animals between the "masters" and layman. Lot us (not saying you..) hear word wash and think of the insta skill bottle of magic. While those little plastic gems of fluid can really take average guys work to next level; I dont think many of pros are using same thing as wash. Not going get that by tossing down ink/washes to attempt to blend them together.

*****

Another thing keep in mind... pics like one you posted are professionally done (talking about techniques used not that have to have a photographic artist taking.) Proper lighting using lightboxes and such, as well as some touch up work after shot taken.. Going produce quite different result then guy with a mini in his hand and average person cam/phone.

Thanks very much. That's made me feel quite a bit better.

I think I might need to ask in future 'what did you mean by X technique' so I don't head off on an assumption regarding what they're talking about.

Well, practice practice practice!! *grin*

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

Besides layering thinned out paint in 10+ layers there are a few quicker techniques to get smooth gradients: oil paint washes/feathering and powdered pigments.

In short: you can use oil paints over acrylics

It is difficult to explain fully just in words so here are a few links:

Linky Linky

Hope that helps, Cheers:)

Thankyou very much! I didn't even know that people used oil paints on miniatures! Aha! I have basically been running with my little 15 pot collection of GW and P3 paints so far - but I love painting on canvases/ceramics so I do in fact have oil paints around! I might see what effects I can get!

The videos were really useful thankyou!

Also, for two brush blending, this video inspired me a lot.

More linkys

Thankyou!! This has explained a lot and given me another idea on how to try to make my layers look nicer!! I shall test I really appreciate the link!!

And I highly recommend using pastel powders. The gradual fade is much smoother. I too, have problem with the "step/line" from one layer of paint to the next. Always seems that no matter how many layers I do or how thin I make the paint, there's always a "step/line" in the color. The pastels have really helped me out with this.

Just my two cents.

I'm not very familiar with Pastel powders actually. Might have to pop down to my art store and inquire! I wonder if they will be too hard for a newbie like me to handle? Hehe. Will definitely check out this option as well. Thanks so much! *grin*

[Webmonkey]

And don't beat yourself up about not being top-notch right out the gate. I consider myself to be a little better then average perhaps, but there's lots of people who are so much better then I am,..(mako, for example),.. and I've been doing this for years.

Either that, or I'm full of my own ego,.. and everyone's been far too polite to tell me that I'm outright crap,.. *grin*

But the long and short of it, is that we are here for you as a community. You can learn a lot by asking, and even if you don't wish to ask, or feel like you're bothering someone,.. there are a multitude of threads on here on various techniques. But don't ever feel bothersome. Most of us are more then happy to share our knowledge. I, at least, am always happy to share, or at least be able to point you to someone who is better at a given technique then I am.

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

I'm not very familiar with Pastel powders actually. Might have to pop down to my art store and inquire! I wonder if they will be too hard for a newbie like me to handle? Hehe. Will definitely check out this option as well. Thanks so much! *grin*

they are super easy to use,.. only cost about $5 a set,.. and if you want to see the result, just check out the skin-tones on my garage kit thread (since I know that you read it). All that reddish skin shading/shadowing is done using the pastels. And it works well with other colors too.

[Mako]

Definitely agree - the things that separate painters are how much practice they've had, and how many questions they ask.

That, and a willingness to experiment and screw it up at times. 'Cos it's gonna happen, no matter who you are. I even occasionally post photos of my screwups for a giggle, and because sometimes good advice comes from them!

[edonil]

Also, keep in mind that not everyone is going to like techniques that you like the look of. I've got a nifty technique for colored metallics and people both hate and praise the thing, lol. At the end of the day, keep in mind that people are going to give you advice based on what they prefer in things...and that it's not necessarily the best thing in the end. Learn what you can, ask the questions you want, and then interpret the answers through your own preferences. Copying someone else's style is a good way to learn, but always work to develop your own.

[Webmonkey]

oh,.. and to help you improve,.. always remember to tell mako that he's rubbish *grin*

It deflates his ego some, and might make you feel, even for a fleeting moment, that you're better then he is *grin* (but then again,.. sooner or later you'll read his thread again, and reality will set in, and your hopes and dreams will be crushed once more. But then you just gotta tell him that he's rubbish again, and then all is right with the world once more!!!)

[edonil]

oh,.. and to help you improve,.. always remember to tell mako that he's rubbish *grin*

It deflates his ego some, and might make you feel, even for a fleeting moment, that you're better then he is *grin* (but then again,.. sooner or later you'll read his thread again, and reality will set in, and your hopes and dreams will be crushed once more. But then you just gotta tell him that he's rubbish again, and then all is right with the world once more!!!)

Agreed, always make sure you remember this rule. (nods sagely)

[Lussuria]

Ok so things to keep in mind:

1. Ensure paint is really thin when painting, use more layers, learn to feather

2. Try out some other mediums of paint to see if I'm a better blender with those

3. Watch youtube videos for techniques

4. Invest in Mag glass

5. Call Mako names

Did I miss anything from my to do list?

[Mako]

Practice a ton, and make loads of mistakes. Very important, that bit.

As the saying goes, it's only by learning from the mistakes we make today that we can really improve the quality of the mistakes we make tomorrow!

[i_was_like_you]

So - to begin, I'm a bit embarrassed by my painting ability as I'm new and just learning so please don't be too harsh! Haha.

With that out of the way, I would love some advice on what I'm doing wrong blending here.

My end goal would to achieve this type of candy blended coloured effect:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14764[/ATTACH]

(Source: http://minimakeovers.wordpress.com/ )

*Disclaimer, this image is not mine and the models in this photo were not painted by me*

I'd say you've done quite well on your model. Very gritty / realistic. To get the candy blended coloured effect, though, I'd add something to the list.

Ok so things to keep in mind:

1. Ensure paint is really thin when painting, use more layers, learn to feather

2. Try out some other mediums of paint to see if I'm a better blender with those

3. Watch youtube videos for techniques

4. Invest in Mag glass

5. Call Mako names

Did I miss anything from my to do list?

6. Model selection

You're using

(Testing this technique on some dummy model I got before I go and end up ruining one of my Malifaux crew too badly!)

which is quite understandable, while the photo you posted from Wordpress is a big, cartoonish bloodbowl team. While it is possible to get those effects on a realistic, detailed sculpt like the one you chose, it's not exactly designed for it.

Many Malifaux models fall somewhere in between those two model types. You can still get very gritty effects or bold cartoonish looks to them. I know I don't paint my Malifaux models quite like I did most of my Reaper ones.

As has been said, practice is key. Start out on some of your crews' minions, then work your way up to your masters. Which crew(s) have you picked up, btw?

[Lussuria]

Practice a ton, and make loads of mistakes. Very important, that bit.

As the saying goes, it's only by learning from the mistakes we make today that we can really improve the quality of the mistakes we make tomorrow!

Thankyou! Haha, I like the saying "Improve the quality of the mistakes you make tomorrow". Haha - a true artists approach to life.

I'd say you've done quite well on your model. Very gritty / realistic. To get the candy blended coloured effect, though, I'd add something to the list.

6. Model selection

You're using ... a realistic, detailed sculpt like the one you chose, it's not exactly designed for it.

Many Malifaux models fall somewhere in between those two model types. You can still get very gritty effects or bold cartoonish looks to them.

As has been said, practice is key. Start out on some of your crews' minions, then work your way up to your masters. Which crew(s) have you picked up, btw?

Thankyou very much! Yea, in hindsight I should have picked a different model set to practice the technique I wanted to use on my Malifaux guys - but they were like $8AU for the set of 3 little warrior men hahahaha.

And the models I currently have:

Order of the Chimera box (Miranda and Rattler both painted with the guidance of a friend - the other two aren't done)

Rasputina (Normal and Alt - Unpainted)

Wendigo (Unpainted)

Zombie Chihuahua (Unpainted)

And....waiting on Jackalope and Hoarcat Pride to come in the mail.

Oh, and I have the Puppet Wars boardgame which arrived today. The puppet wars game is actually the primary reason I want to learn the candy coloured effect as I think they'd look nice all ... bright fluffy colours hahaha. But I'm going to hold off painting them for a bit to practice. *grin*