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Public Response to the Malifaux Community


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Responding to this thread and discussions therein.

Public question to EricJ

To answer the original question. I have not, and will not ever discourage someone from playing first edition malifaux. In fact I even added multiple v1.5 tournaments to our Gen Con lineup. (This was a huge mistake in retrospect, as due to the disappointing lack of interest in these tournaments, with barely more than 50% registration, we might end up losing our preferred event organizer status with Gen Con. Only perhaps saved by our completely sold out second edition tournaments). I would also publicly encourage the efforts of v1.5 payers to gather here or on other sites and continue enjoying what they enjoy.

I strongly believe second edition is a far superior game for so many reason and it will continue to be my focus going forward. But people should do what they enjoy, and no one should ever tell you otherwise...or that I said otherwise.

Regarding Malifaux Classic. Take a look at it from my perspective.

1) No permission was ever asked, and it was progressing without any contact whatsoever. Yes, I can lose the right to all my work if this continues and I don't address it, so it had to be addressed. So I was the one forced to initiate contact.

2) What is essentially being asked for was a open license to every bit of our IP, developed over 7+ years, to be used expressly with no oversight, and to be given away publicly for free. Even if I were to license 1.5, it would be terribly irresponsible of me to do so under these terms.

3) It was being forced on me on an immediate time line, without giving me any chance to develop a licensing policy to ensure I could protect the strength and integrity of this product I've given over half a decade to develop and has a following of tens of thousands.

4) The request was being made by someone who despite past support, has been increasingly disruptive and disrespectful, and, unlike 1000's of other testers, could not put aside his personal feelings for M2E to focus on improving the product before publicly denouncing it (multiple times through multiple outlets). He's asked me to completely trust him with something I've put years of my life into, my livelihood, and the livelihood of dozens of my employees. When I asked him to please wait until I could develop a licensing policy, he took all of 3 hours to publicly post all emails between us and denounce my decision, coming to some outrageous and inflammatory assumptions about my goals and motivations. He's now posting very selected portions of IP law for some reason, seeming to say he could be justified in stealing my work? I don't even know why, and I'm going to choose to not investigate those motivations further. But none of this creates even a fraction of the trust that would be required for me to hand over the rights and give my approval to do what was being planned.

I have not yet evaluated the potential value or need of a project along the lines of Malifaux Classic, and as such, my response was given independent of that evaluation. It's a huge question that would require a ton of time and research, and not one I'm going to rush and do irresponsibly. My response was given based solely on the 4 points given above.

Please tell me, even if I wanted to license out Malifaux 1.5 (which I honestly haven't looked into due to being so busy trying to make 2E as good as I possibly can), if anyone would actually recommend I do so under the above conditions? Can you honestly disagree with my decision based on those criteria?

Edited by EricJ
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It is a rather rhetorical question. As you set it up, no, that would be crazy.

I read through the exchange, and if that's how you feel the direction is going, then it seems prudent to simply answer with "No, thank you for your interest."

If one wanted to leave a door open, they could append "Perhaps we can revisit this when Gencon Season is over (aka: November/December/March)".

He asked a few times if your response was a hard No, you gave thoughtful explanations as to your motivations, but vagueness remained.

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Agree completely. It's one thing to dislike an edition change, it's another to actively work against it. There is an extremely vocal minority that I feel is becoming more and more disruptive, calling people who support the change apologists, butt-kissers, idiots and worse, and while there have certainly been M2E supporters who have treated dissenters similarly, the percentage is much smaller.

I feel for people who dislike the change, but at this point it seems like time to either get over it and discuss and play M2E, or discuss and play 1.5 and stop complaining about the change over. Just because you didn't get your way doesn't mean Wyrd is evil. And it is ludicrous to assume they'd open their IP especially at a time like this.

Also, the discussion of IP law on these boards is borderline dangerous. As an attorney who has studied it, I highly recommend talking to an actual lawyer target than just looking stuff up on the Internet.

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It is a rather rhetorical question. As you set it up, no, that would be crazy.

I read through the exchange, and if that's how you feel the direction is going, then it seems prudent to simply answer with "No, thank you for your interest."

If one wanted to leave a door open, they could append "Perhaps we can revisit this when Gencon Season is over (aka: November/December/March)".

He asked a few times if your response was a hard No, you gave thoughtful explanations as to your motivations, but vagueness remained.

He asked for a hard no to everything he was doing on his site. I think it's pretty clear Wyrd never wanted to quash anyone playing 1.5 or organizing to do so, but what he could not do was laid out very clearly. He was asked to wait while Wyrd researched licensing. Instead, he went public.

However, I am fairly certain he has a hard no now. :)

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It is a rather rhetorical question. As you set it up, no, that would be crazy.

I read through the exchange, and if that's how you feel the direction is going, then it seems prudent to simply answer with "No, thank you for your interest."

If one wanted to leave a door open, they could append "Perhaps we can revisit this when Gencon Season is over (aka: November/December/March)".

He asked a few times if your response was a hard No, you gave thoughtful explanations as to your motivations, but vagueness remained.

I read it too, and I thought that was what Eric had said. Not in the same words, but a request to wait so it could be considered certainly.

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:+fate to EricJ and Justin. As always, you never need to respond or justify things to us but still you strive to in order to foster the kind of community that loves the product.

Fanboy gushing post concluded.

Edited by Jonasty
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He asked for a hard no to everything he was doing on his site. I think it's pretty clear Wyrd never wanted to quash anyone playing 1.5 or organizing to do so, but what he could not do was laid out very clearly. He was asked to wait while Wyrd researched licensing. Instead, he went public.

However, I am fairly certain he has a hard no now. :)

Oh, certainly.

But it's good to have this all made very clear. Even if taking the exchange public didn't help matters, just because he has been denied doesn't mean others won't try to one degree or another. The looming discussion regarding IP that is pending should be interesting to see as well.

Also, agree with thebarbalag. It's my understanding that US IP and Copyright/Trademark/Patent/Etc laws are basically an absolute cluster...shenanigans.

And that's for people who understand half of it.

For the average lay person it might as well read "Here be dragons."

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The fact that there was no hard 'No' given should have been enough of an indication to just have a little patience and wait.

It was handled incredibly badly by going 'public'. Bill has probably now lost any shot he might have once had.

I'm totally bored with this entire topic now.

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With so much negative and unprofessional attitudes towards company direction, I wouldn't trust that person with the responsibility to oversee a continuation of any version of the game.

I know this has probably been said over and over, but I feel there are way too many people upset over something as trivial as a game and its evolution and acting like 5 year olds. If you don't like 2E, either stop playing and find a different game, keep playing with the classic rules and just know there you will not have anymore new models, or get used to 2E. Some people despise change and are unwilling to adapt and accept it no matter how positive the changes might be. But I feel no one should ever be malicious towards the creators of the game and characters you love only because you have a different opinion of how the game should grow (or how it should not grow in this case). To those who are complaining about the direction of Malifaux: this isn't your baby. It's the creators' and Wyrd's. If you want to support a Malifaux Classic, that's fine, but you do it by putting your best foot forward with the company that made it in the first place and do it in a positive and productive way. You don't demand. You work WITH Wyrd. You definitely don't disrespect the ones who made the game in the first place.

/rant

Edited by zeil999
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I think that the desire and dirextion of classic looks very cool.

I di not interpret eric's response in the same way as nix seemed to and hope that with further reflection that all involved can come to an understanding of how both wyrd and any sort of classic community could benefit.

In other words I hope this is a bump in the road rather than an ending.

And I also hope that personal feelings can be set aside to get a better perspective SOON so that we can continue the conversation.

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I just felt compelled to tell you that this is easily the funniest line I've read all week. I don't know why. But I've been laughing for like 2 minutes.

That's first symptom of massive work pressure madness setting in mate.

Next thing you know you'll be screaming and hurling poo at Justin.

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It would be like allowing the child molester down the street from you to babysit your one and only child.

I know this has probably been said over and over, but I feel there are way too many people upset over something as trivial as a game and its evolution and acting like 5 year olds. If you don't like 2E, either stop playing and find a different game, keep playing with the classic rules and just know there you will not have anymore new models, or get used to 2E. Some people despise change and are unwilling to adapt and accept it no matter how positive the changes might be. But I feel no one should ever be malicious towards the creators of the game and characters you love only because you have a different opinion of how the game should grow (or how it should not grow in this case).

/rant

:+fate

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I know this has probably been said over and over, but I feel there are way too many people upset over something as trivial as a game and its evolution and acting like 5 year olds. If you don't like 2E, either stop playing and find a different game, keep playing with the classic rules and just know there you will not have anymore new models, or get used to 2E. Some people despise change and are unwilling to adapt and accept it no matter how positive the changes might be. But I feel no one should ever be malicious towards the creators of the game and characters you love only because you have a different opinion of how the game should grow (or how it should not grow in this case). To those who are complaining about the direction of Malifaux: this isn't your baby. It's the creators' and Wyrd's. If you want to support a Malifaux Classic, that's fine, but you do it by putting your best foot forward with the company that made it in the first place and do it in a positive and productive way. You don't demand. You work WITH Wyrd. You definitely don't disrespect the ones who made the game in the first place.

/rant

Well said.

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as i see it it is your product, and you do what you see fit. i would not trough inaction want to loose my property so. if people want to play m1 let them, but i wont look wrong at you for not backign it anymore

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