Public Response to the Malifaux Community

[tadaka]

Eric I am glad you took the time to post feedback. Dont have to but did and I give you props for that.

I have no desire to keep playing any version of malifaux at this point but I hope you will look in to some sort of a 1.0/1.5 open enviorment for the fans that do want it. Even if your upset at Bill no one voted him in as the spokesperson for those left behind.

I do want to say filling even to 50% capacity on a game edition that is being given up for a new edition says a lot about how much people do want to play. You got that much support out there even after most people who give a crap about 1.5 have given up on the wyrd boards.

I wish you the best of luck that malifaux does well as perhaps down the road 3.0 will be a game I want to play.

[Mack.Martin]

That's first symptom of massive work pressure madness setting in mate.

Next thing you know you'll be screaming and hurling poo at Justin.

Next thing? That was like... weeks ago.

[theJudge]

You made 100% the right decision.

[mattbird]

I do want to say filling even to 50% capacity on a game edition that is being given up for a new edition says a lot about how much people do want to play. You got that much support out there even after most people who give a crap about 1.5 have given up on the wyrd boards.

To me it says that some people don't want to play a tournament game that the rules were released for that very day. It says nothing about continued support for anything.

[Tuttleboy]

I just felt compelled to tell you that this is easily the funniest line I've read all week. I don't know why. But I've been laughing for like 2 minutes.

Made me laugh, too...and I know why. TROGDOOOOOOOOR

Bill seems to be a smart guy and has been involved with Wyrd long enough to know that they are working their collective bums off right now a GenCon frenzy. The brains he has and behind the door stuff he's seen over the years should have been enough to lead him to the conclusion that patience is required. It didn't.

Not many folks (no one) out there would give the rights up to their IP the way Eric and Nathan were asked to, even for a limited time, even with the caveat that said permission could be revoked at any time for any reason.

[mythicFOX]

Next thing? That was like... weeks ago.

Was that the inspiration for the splatters the M2e soulstone costs are printed on?

[Dracomax]

EricJ: I do feel that You are not completely in the right. I also feel that Nix was not in the right in the way he handled it. I feel like right now, there might be a bit too much in the way of hurt feelings and willingness to read altogether the wrong intentions from the other's actions.

Nix clearly felt that you were threatening legal action if he did not cease and desist immediately. You clearly felt that he was moving way to fast without even trying to get permission from You. I honestly think that both of you read a bit more into the other's actions than was warranted.

That being said, I think it would help if you announced you were considering a liscensing agreement, and I firmly beleive that even something like announcing you were keeping a M1E subforum up for use in continuing the M1E community and putting fan revisions where you could exert some control, it would do a great deal to reducing hostility towards M2E.

It certainly doesn't help that right now the forum seems to be filled with people who are either going to vehemently agree with Nix, or WIth Justin, and disagree with the other, based solely on whether they like M1E or M2E better. It also does not help the way that M2E supporters seem to come down on anyone supporting M1E, or efforts to keep M1E alive. The comparison of Nix to a child molestor in relationship to malifaux is but one(albeit one of the more extreme and hyperbolic)example of this, and it needs to stop. all it is doing is creating further fractures in the community, and it is honestly making the entire forum feel toxic. and I like M2E. For someone who feels that Malifaux is leaving them behind, this is like being sucker-punched in the family jewels. It's only adding to a situation that really could have been, and could still, be defused with a bit of calm and open talk once the GenCon rush is over.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

Edited July 26, 2013 by Dracomax

[Shadowopal]

I have to say, I like both Bill and Eric a lot. I think they both are pretty fantastic people and hate to see this happening. Having said that:

1) I hope that Wyrd has not let this situation dissuade them from working towards a fan supported 1.5 edition. I understand that you want to do right by your IP and that takes time you don't have right now. But please consider it for the future. I will play both.

2) I agree with Eric protecting his IP.

3) I know Bill feel personally rejected by Wyrd and I know having put as much time into the company as he has, that is easy to feel whether justified or not. I put 25 years into promoting the hell out of GW. There came a point where I felt that did not care. So I stopped. Hopefully Bill will be able to sort out his resentment/anger/whatever and find someway to enjoy a game again whether Wyrd or not as I did.

[Dracomax]

I have to say, I like both Bill and Eric a lot. I think they both are pretty fantastic people and hate to see this happening. Having said that:

1) I hope that Wyrd has not let this situation dissuade them from working towards a fan supported 1.5 edition. I understand that you want to do right by your IP and that takes time you don't have right now. But please consider it for the future. I will play both.

2) I agree with Eric protecting his IP.

3) I know Bill feel personally rejected by Wyrd and I know having put as much time into the company as he has, that is easy to feel whether justified or not. I put 25 years into promoting the hell out of GW. There came a point where I felt that did not care. So I stopped. Hopefully Bill will be able to sort out his resentment/anger/whatever and find someway to enjoy a game again whether Wyrd or not as I did.

Because I my thank button has dissapeared...

[Mako]

I wouldn't bet much money on Eric considering a licensing agreement after this mess.

This indeed would have been much more peaceably dealt with after GenCon, perhaps even once M2E was released. But it wasn't left that long, and now there's been enough bad blood about it that I wouldn't be in any way surprised if any possible 1.5 stuff (subforum, whatever) was now in the 'don't bother' pile.

[caen]

In other words I hope this is a bump in the road rather than an ending.

I also hope that when dust settle the future of Malifaux 1.5 could be described in more than two words, becouse in this moment description is: "no future".

[EmperorsChump]

I'd just like to say how much I am contastly impressed by Wyrds interaction and communication to their customers and community. I've been playing war/table-top games for over 20 years and I can't remember the last time I felt this kind of pride and passion from the developers.

I have no real insight into the world of IP laws so have very little advice to give. I would like to say that through all the years of different systems and games, I've only ever played the latest editions. That's just how it works.

I wish Wyrd the best of luck for the future and will continue to support them by buying bucket loads of minis!

Cheers,

Matt.

[Dracomax]

I wouldn't bet much money on Eric considering a licensing agreement after this mess.

This indeed would have been much more peaceably dealt with after GenCon, perhaps even once M2E was released. But it wasn't left that long, and now there's been enough bad blood about it that I wouldn't be in any way surprised if any possible 1.5 stuff (subforum, whatever) was now in the 'don't bother' pile.

I turly hope that isn't the case, because if that is the case, then it tells me all that I need to know about supporting Wyrd in the future.

[nilus]

To me it says that some people don't want to play a tournament game that the rules were released for that very day. It says nothing about continued support for anything.

Also could be people who want to play with Masters not supported by M2E at Gencon, which was my driving reason to push Eric and team to keep the Tournaments 1.5.

The fact that they are only just shy of 65% full(over two events, around 41 people signed up) could be from multiple factors. Rules version is one possibility but there are others. They are also 2 hours longer then the other events. They are also Competitive Tournaments where they Story Encounters are being sold as non-competitive events(they are not even really tournaments).

Had I known then what I know now (I think at the time of planning these events I was not even aware there was going to be an open beta), I would have maybe pushed for one Malifaux 1.5 event and ran an official M2E tournament in the other slot.

In the end with a new edition coming out at a big convention there was no way Wyrd could find a solution that would please everyone 100%, I think doing a mix of events was the right call but without a time machine to go back and change things we really can't know for sure.

[mattbird]

Also could be people who want to play with Masters not supported by M2E at Gencon, which was my driving reason to push Eric and team to keep the Tournaments 1.5.

The fact that they are only just shy of 65% full(over two events, around 41 people signed up) could be from multiple factors. Rules version is one possibility but there are others. They are also 2 hours longer then the other events. They are also Competitive Tournaments where they Story Encounters are being sold as non-competitive events(they are not even really tournaments).

Had I known then what I know now (I think at the time of planning these events I was not even aware there was going to be an open beta), I would have maybe pushed for one Malifaux 1.5 event and ran an official M2E tournament in the other slot.

In the end with a new edition coming out at a big convention there was no way Wyrd could find a solution that would please everyone 100%, I think doing a mix of events was the right call but without a time machine to go back and change things we really can't know for sure.

[HalcyonSeraph]

I also hope that when dust settle the future of Malifaux 1.5 could be described in more than two words, becouse in this moment description is: "no future".

I don't understand why the future of 1.5 isn't "Play 1.5 with your friends who also like 1.5 better". 1.5 is still there. The books exist, the cards exist, play it. If you want Wyrd to change it, well, sorry, you get M2E instead. Want new models? Sorry, play the edition that is being supported. I don't get new official 3rd edition Shadowrun adventures either, because it's a dead edition. Doesn't mean I can't play it or write new ones to run people through.

If you want to house rule 1.5 and fix the stuff that is broken, go ahead. Email your house rules to your google group of people who also like 1.5. Make up new stats for new masters and email those around too. What you can't do, once again, is put up a website covered in Wyrd art and post their property with your changes. It may be that there will be a policy in place to allow people to do that, in limited and controlled ways and with Wyrd's permission. But if there is literally one person in the world who was the wrong person to hitch that wagon to and make the face of your Keep 1.5 Alive movement, it was Nix.

[Duck21]

Thank you Eric, but I think you misunderstood the question. I am not affiliated with Malifaux classic project. My thread was hijack by people talking about it but I prefer Malifaux 1.5

The reason I asked you What is your opinion of people who intend to stay with Malifaux 1.5 ? is because for about a month I felt very unwelcome on this forum. Some very zealous supporters of M2E mock, bully, and demonise people who are worried about Malifaux 1.5 losing support . It’s like they trying to drive us away, and I don’t think it’s in Wyrd’s interest. The last thing you want is for people to rage damp their collections on Ebay. Just look at the very first reply to my Public question to Eric J thread.

That's like being asked by your partner; "If you had to have sex with one of my friends, or they'd kill your mum, which one would it be?"

There are only wrong answers.

This was rude offensive and uncalled for. This is what creates negativity. Do you really want people like that to answer on behalf of your company. I now you are very busy with Gen Con but some sort of peace should be kept these boards. I find comments like Shut up and leave very disheartening, and I don’t like to be called rage quitter. I have no intention of quitting. I want to carry on collecting and painting Wyrd Miniatures, and playing Malifaux 1.5 and I would really appreciate if new miniatures like Brew Master and Iron Zombies could be made Malifaux 1.5 compatible either by Wyrd or by the community.

Regards Andrey Tatarinov.

[Dracomax]

Thank you Eric, but I think you misunderstood the question. I am not affiliated with Malifaux classic project. My thread was hijack by people talking about it but I prefer Malifaux 1.5

The reason I asked you What is your opinion of people who intend to stay with Malifaux 1.5 ? is because for about a month I felt very unwelcome on this forum. Some very zealous supporters of M2E mock, bully, and demonise people who are worried about Malifaux 1.5 losing support . It’s like they trying to drive us away, and I don’t think it’s in Wyrd’s interest. The last thing you want is for people to rage damp their collections on Ebay. Just look at the very first reply to my Public question to Eric J thread.

This was rude offensive and uncalled for. This is what creates negativity. Do you really want people like that to answer on behalf of your company. I now you are very busy with Gen Con but some sort of peace should be kept these boards. I find comments like Shut up and leave very disheartening, and I don’t like to be called rage quitter. I have no intention of quitting. I want to carry on collecting and painting Wyrd Miniatures, and playing Malifaux 1.5 and I would really appreciate if new miniatures like Brew Master and Iron Zombies could be made Malifaux 1.5 compatible either by Wyrd or by the community.

Regards Andrey Tatarinov.

I cannot this enough. It is literally the best thing I have seen on these forums today, and possibly since the last beta update.

In Short, Why, oh why can't we all just get along?

[dgraz]

I've also noticed a trend of the 'Classic lovers' to take any form of disagreement as: "he's yelling at me", he's bullying me"........most responses to the 'classic lovers' has been......so go play it.....just don't expect everyone else to play it with you.

[Utterkhaos]

im under the understanding that people should relax. if you want to play 1.5 play 1.5 if you want to play 2.0 play 2.0. hell i play allot of games that no longer have support (vampire the eternal struggle ). That being said their shouldn't be animosity between 2.0 and 1.5 players. its both malifaux. its the game i have spent the last 3 yrs playing and reading on these forums. i have loved spending time on here with you guys and i hope you have done the same. so please love the game and stop the hostility

[Malovane]

The fact that this response was even needed is sad. The malifauxclassic initiative reeks of unjust entitlement. The lack of civility, the lack of respect, and the overall passive aggressiveness of some 1.5 stalwarts toward wyrd and the community in general is shocking. It has taken a divided community, and in forcing the issue, torn an even deeper gash in a wound that needed time to mend. It all seems to be rooted in this need (be it conscious or subconscious) for one side or the other to prove itself right.

Given the chance and proper time frame, Wyrd might have opted to support a classic line or endorse fan based support, the method in which malifauxclassic has been pursued is ill-timed at the very least. Let M2E launch, let gencon pass, find an opportune time to purse such a mission. Do so with open communication and try to actually compromise to find a deal that both sides are amiable toward.

Anyway, I say bravo to Eric and Wyrd. Your response to this unfortunate episode is entirely justified.

[Dracomax]

The fact that this response was even needed is sad. The malifauxclassic initiative reeks of unjust entitlement. The lack of civility, the lack of respect, and the overall passive aggressiveness of some 1.5 stalwarts toward wyrd and the community in general is shocking. It has taken a divided community, and in forcing the issue, torn an even deeper gash in a wound that needed time to mend. It all seems to be rooted in this need (be it conscious or subconscious) for one side or the other to prove itself right.

Given the chance and proper time frame, Wyrd might have opted to support a classic line or endorse fan based support, the method in which malifauxclassic has been pursued is ill-timed at the very least. Let M2E launch, let gencon pass, find an opportune time to purse such a mission. Do so with open communication and try to actually compromise to find a deal that both sides are amiable toward.

Anyway, I say bravo to Eric and Wyrd. Your response to this unfortunate episode is entirely justified.

I pretty much cannot disagree with this more. in fact, the word entitlement alon makes it obvious that this post reeks of bias and confrontation. it is at least as passive aggressive as anything the classic movement did, and quite a bit more so than most.

If anything, it's posts like this that set out to lay blame, cause further widening of the gap, and otherwise make the other side look like they are irrational and childish that are poisoning the forum, and could easily poison the future of Wyrd. If it gains the reputation of bein a place that isn't friendly to those who don't agree with the majority, where people who don't "toe the line" are cast out, or treated as if they are pariahs, then I honestly don't think that a company that has succeeded thus far for the opposite reputation can survive in the long run.

[zFiend]

Hm.. First off, clearly you care about your players, props for that! Second.. M2E isn't even published and people are going mental about 1.5 being better to a point off starting a war.. I for one, am waiting for M2E, because I believe it will be better, games tend to get better with the update and the next version

[PierceSternum]

I've also noticed a trend of the 'Classic lovers' to take any form of disagreement as: "he's yelling at me", he's bullying me"........most responses to the 'classic lovers' has been......so go play it.....just don't expect everyone else to play it with you.

I do not think the classic folks are saying anything of the sort.

To my eye some of the more zealous of the M2E supporte rs have taken it upon heir own shoulders to become protectors of wyrd IP and have actively campaigned against those who are no longer trying to say what M2E should be but rather what they would like to do to M1E instead.

I would think that would be something that would make some of you HAPPY to get rid of the critics of M2E.

Instead itsstill just a ****ing contest.

[Squirrelfreak]

Lets just wait until after gencon and some of us are a little bit poorer in our wallets before any of this is 'on the agenda'.

For now, play your 1.5 or M2E if you want, wait after the actual rulebook is in your hands (if you buy it at least) and then decide. Perhaps there are still some changes in the rulebook, who knows.

Anyways, I for one just want to get my hands on some new models, which I can use for 1.5 or M2E (except for Tara of course).

Let the people responsible for making a product work on their project. Like I stated earlier, this is a game with toy soldiers, which I love to play in any form. I know some of you invested far more money and time in this game than me. It can be a bit disheartening. I had the same after they scrapped mordheim or changed the rules for warhammer again.

My only wish for now is: some more modelpictures please Especially some gremlin ones.

Also I agree with the developers of the system. It's their product. Give them time to think on what they should do AFTER gencon.

My two cents