Misaki, a Good Starter? Please Help a Malifaux Noob...

[Kriegsspiele]

Hello world!

I'm thinking about getting into Malifaux together with a friend of mine.

Looking at those box sets, the Ten Thunder one caught my eyes because I really love the asian flair.

Reading more about Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders, she - and the box - becomes even more interesting.

The wiki says: "Misaki's box set comes with 29ss worth of models - 3 Torakage, shang, and Ototo. This is a nice basis for a crew, and easy to expand upon. ... There are some support models you could also get. Yamaziko is a 6ss model, which would take your initial crew up to 35 with a single purchase."

That sounds reasonable and nice. And even the rest sounds nice as I'm a big fan of melee ... and not so interested in range.

So, besides the box and Yamaziko, I'd need a fate deck (I really like the retro one), and a rule book.

Questions:

1. Is Misaki a good starter in general? Is she somehow special? Hard to play? Is it hard to get into the game with her?

2. Does the box contain stuff I'm still going to play in 12 or even 24 months?

3. Is Yamaziko a good addtion?

4. Would you build a totally different (starter) crew for Misaki? Why? How?

5. If I get it right, the box and Yamaziko don't add any range weapons to the game. How important is range in this game? Is a crew without ranged options playable?

6. Which rule book(s?) do I really need?

7. Why does Ten Thunder have such a small choice of models compared to the other factions? So new? Does this cause any problems?

8. My friend thinks about the Von Shill box as a starter. Is Misaki vs. Von Shill a bad matchup or somehow boring for anyone of us? Should we think about something different?

I'm really looking forward to read your answers, ideas, suggestions!

[xKoBiEx]

Misaki and her crew are not overly complicated, but they are tricky. Yamaziko is a must. So is 10T Brother. Given the right hand, Misaki will decapitate Von Schill quite easily. However, his crew has a lot of range that you need to get past. Your Torakage will be good for issuing ranged attacks and burning your opponent's control hand before Misaki jumps in for the kill. There are lots of models that you will want to add. You really aren't cuddled for selection.

All that said, it is really too early to say whether Misaki will be strong in M2E which is mere months away. Players relying on current Henchmen for support of their masters will have to find new strategies. Misaki is not one of those Masters as she has all the 10T models in her hiring base that behave like Henchmen, even without the title.

[Lump]

I started with Misaki and I've found her quite easy to use. I would most definitely recommend Yamaziko as she makes Misaki better and last a lot longer (she's other wise quite fragile in my experience). She also has a number of useful buffs for the rest of the crew.

You may also wish to get Taelor as a sort of replacement for ototo (he's quite good in certain situations, but Taelor's a better all-round melee fighter).

As xKoBiEx pointed out Ten Thunders Brothers are a must have, and you may wish to get a box of Archers too, but I'd say they weren't as necessary.

You actually only need the free rule book from the Malifaux site as all the models come with the rules you need for them, and you can get all of the Strategies and Schemes from here, though you might do well to buy Storm of Shadows as it contains all the rules for the Ten Thunders faction including their faction only Schemes.

I think Misaki vs. Von Schill might be a good match up from what I understand about the Freikrops, but I'm not an expert on those models so I may be wrong.

Hope that answers your questions :Smug_Puppet2:

[Kriegsspiele]

You actually only need the free rule book from the Malifaux site as all the models come with the rules you need for them, and you can get all of the Strategies and Schemes from here, though you might do well to buy Storm of Shadows as it contains all the rules for the Ten Thunders faction including their faction only Schemes.

Cool and thanks for the link! So the free rules downloads are already enough? That's really amazing!

Misaki and her crew are not overly complicated, but they are tricky. Yamaziko is a must. So is 10T Brother.

I started with Misaki and I've found her quite easy to use. I would most definitely recommend Yamaziko as she makes Misaki better and last a lot longer (she's other wise quite fragile in my experience). She also has a number of useful buffs for the rest of the crew. - You may also wish to get Taelor as a sort of replacement for ototo (he's quite good in certain situations, but Taelor's a better all-round melee fighter). - As xKoBiEx pointed out Ten Thunders Brothers are a must have, and you may wish to get a box of Archers too, but I'd say they weren't as necessary.

So my "shopping list" would look like:

- 10T box

- Yamaziko

- 10T Brothers

- Fate Deck

While Taelor and 10T Archers might be later on additions?

Given the right hand, Misaki will decapitate Von Schill quite easily. However, his crew has a lot of range that you need to get past. Your Torakage will be good for issuing ranged attacks and burning your opponent's control hand before Misaki jumps in for the kill. There are lots of models that you will want to add. You really aren't cuddled for selection.

I think Misaki vs. Von Schill might be a good match up from what I understand about the Freikrops, but I'm not an expert on those models so I may be wrong.

Please don't get me wrong here: I'm not asking if Misaki easily wins against Von Schill. I'm asking if Misaki vs. Von Schill is a bad matchup for anyone of us? We're looking for a setup that's mostly balanced and not some kind of "easy win button" for anyone of us?

"Given the right hand, Misaki will decapitate Von Schill quite easily. However, his crew has a lot of range that you need to get past." Does this still mean the matchup would be balanced?

All that said, it is really too early to say whether Misaki will be strong in M2E which is mere months away. Players relying on current Henchmen for support of their masters will have to find new strategies. Misaki is not one of those Masters as she has all the 10T models in her hiring base that behave like Henchmen, even without the title.

That sounds like ... a good thing?

Thanks a lot for your answers and suggestions!!!

[Sonova]

Cool and thanks for the link! So the free rules downloads are already enough? That's really amazing!

So my "shopping list" would look like:

- 10T box

- Yamaziko

- 10T Brothers

- Fate Deck

While Taelor and 10T Archers might be later on additions?

Please don't get me wrong here: I'm not asking if Misaki easily wins against Von Schill. I'm asking if Misaki vs. Von Schill is a bad matchup for anyone of us? We're looking for a setup that's mostly balanced and not some kind of "easy win button" for anyone of us?

"Given the right hand, Misaki will decapitate Von Schill quite easily. However, his crew has a lot of range that you need to get past." Does this still mean the matchup would be balanced?

That sounds like ... a good thing?

Thanks a lot for your answers and suggestions!!!

RE: Balancing.

What the 'Korps has is flexibility which Misaki doesnt really have. Even with archers, if a Misaki crew stands off and tries to shoot they will typically lose to attrition. Misaki's crew however has a fair few movement tricks and Misaki herself is very very hard to pin down.

Freikorps have very few answers to melee monsters, which is why the typical Freikorps set up has the Viktorias leading them as melee solutions. Which is not to say that the 'Korps is bad at melee. Just most melee focused crews are better at it than they are.

However Misaki is made of damp tissue paper and will herself fold to any concerted melee attack once she runs out of stones. On the flipside, Von Schill will never be stuck in an unwanted combat and will always tend to go where he needs to go and is hardier due to his slow to die.

So on the face of that, Misaki tends to be abit harder to use even with all her tricksy instant kill goodness while VS is far more straight forward. If your friend is smart about it and plays to deny you melee opportunities you probably wont find it overly 'balanced' but similarly if he allows you to run rampant or screws up his placement, then you will run roughshod over him.

[Kriegsspiele]

So on the face of that, Misaki tends to be abit harder to use even with all her tricksy instant kill goodness while VS is far more straight forward. If your friend is smart about it and plays to deny you melee opportunities you probably wont find it overly 'balanced' but similarly if he allows you to run rampant or screws up his placement, then you will run roughshod over him.

Well, that doesn't sound good.

What would be a more balanced choice? If possible a Box Set one.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I would definitely disagree that Misaki is fragile and will fold like wet tissue paper when she is out of stones. ALL masters in the game become much easier to kill once they run out of stones. Misaki has a Df 7, the second highest of any master in the game and a decentish amount of wounds. Even once she runs out of stones she still has that Df 7 to fall back on which is nothing to ignore.

Basically if you let her get surrounded and ganged on, which it really the only realistic hope anyone has of killing her, then she will go down, but so will pretty much every master in Malifaux.

[hippodruid]

Well, that doesn't sound good.

What would be a more balanced choice? If possible a Box Set one.

I think what Sonova was saying there was that the crews are balanced by means of difference. If the Freikorps player can successfully keep the Thunder away, the game will more than likely favor them. The Thunder have a lot of movement tricks and repositioning that they can use to close with enemies, and most of their damage comes from close quarters fighting, so if they make it into melee, they will likely overwhelm the Freikorps. The balance in play comes from strategy requirements and scheme selection. Supply Wagon for the Freikorps should make them nervous, while Distract for them will make the Thunder player unhappy. This is also why crews are built after Strategies have been flipped and the board has been set up, to maximize effectiveness for a crew in a given scenario. A lot of the skill of the game is making sure the right models for the job are there in the first place!

[recklas]

As far as balance is concerned it depends on schemes and strategies, as hippo pointed out. Table layout will also be a large determining factor in that match up. If you both took slaughter, assassinate, and bodyguard, it would be a very balanced game, as long as the terrain was set up fairly. Too much terrain and Misaki would have the advantage, too little and VonSchill would have the advantage. My advice would be to choose a faction that visually appeals to you, have your friend do the same. Get a starter box for that faction and see what setups work best for that master, then purchase things to make up for the things that don't. Most of the time crews are chosen after the board is set up and schemes and strategies are chosen. So I would recommend choosing strategies from the core encounters to start off with instead of flipping for them to see which ones the masters you have chosen are good with.

[Kriegsspiele]

Basically if you let her get surrounded and ganged on, which it really the only realistic hope anyone has of killing her, then she will go down, but so will pretty much every master in Malifaux.

I think what Sonova was saying there was that the crews are balanced by means of difference. ... The balance in play comes from strategy requirements and scheme selection. Supply Wagon for the Freikorps should make them nervous, while Distract for them will make the Thunder player unhappy. This is also why crews are built after Strategies have been flipped and the board has been set up, to maximize effectiveness for a crew in a given scenario. A lot of the skill of the game is making sure the right models for the job are there in the first place!

As far as balance is concerned it depends on schemes and strategies, as hippo pointed out. Table layout will also be a large determining factor in that match up. If you both took slaughter, assassinate, and bodyguard, it would be a very balanced game, as long as the terrain was set up fairly. Too much terrain and Misaki would have the advantage, too little and VonSchill would have the advantage. My advice would be to choose a faction that visually appeals to you, have your friend do the same. Get a starter box for that faction and see what setups work best for that master, then purchase things to make up for the things that don't. Most of the time crews are chosen after the board is set up and schemes and strategies are chosen. So I would recommend choosing strategies from the core encounters to start off with instead of flipping for them to see which ones the masters you have chosen are good with.

Thanks a lot! So you all seem to agree that we won't run into any kind of "unfair setting" with the Misaki vs. VS setting? That's great to hear, as we both feel "set" on the masters already.

[Sonova]

I would definitely disagree that Misaki is fragile and will fold like wet tissue paper when she is out of stones. ALL masters in the game become much easier to kill once they run out of stones. Misaki has a Df 7, the second highest of any master in the game and a decentish amount of wounds. Even once she runs out of stones she still has that Df 7 to fall back on which is nothing to ignore.

Basically if you let her get surrounded and ganged on, which it really the only realistic hope anyone has of killing her, then she will go down, but so will pretty much every master in Malifaux.

No armor and/or hard to wound and only a slightly above average amount of wounds and/or trix to mitigate wounds. She wont die on the spot but anything that is game enough to go toe to toe with her will generally kill her once you are clicking empty on the stones. Which is why one of your priorities in the game is to kill all the models that could pose her a threat ASAP. Preferably without exposing her to harm in the process.

[Fetid Strumpet]

She has use SS, add that to the SS ability to make dmg reduction flips and that's how she mitigates wounds. Models with 7+ Df notoriously difficult to kill, especially if they have use SS.

[Hackjack]

So I am also very new to the game and picked up Misaki as my starter.

I played some games against Von Schill (another new player) and I felt like it was reasonably balanced in the fact that both sides probably had a chance to win. However, Von Schill has a huge ranged game and Misaki is pretty much melee only.

So the first few turns were spent blowing my stuff up and I had to basically run into combat as fast as possible. With tricky positioning (and Misaki and the Torakage special rules) I figured out with a decent amount of terrain I could stop most incoming attacks and charge out from behind a building without ever taking more than a few shots. Once I figured out how to do this, the Von Schill player really couldn't reliably protect any of his pieces any more.

Of the other games I've played, I played a few games against Lady Justice that I felt were very balanced. Not sure about how Misaki would do against other boxed sets though.

[Sonova]

She has use SS, add that to the SS ability to make dmg reduction flips and that's how she mitigates wounds. Models with 7+ Df notoriously difficult to kill, especially if they have use SS.

I said once you run out of stones.

[dirtycrabcakes]

I would add that you might not want to buy TT Archers unless you are ready to frustrate yourself. Building (and storing) those models is a major PITA.

[Arli]

I would agree with that. My TT Archers are ok (except the arrows, those broke first). I have repeatedly had to glue Misaki back to her base (at least 4 times now). Very fragile models. No broken Tokorage yet though.

[Lump]

I've actually had no building/storage issues with my archers. Only one of theem is damaged (standing on one foot guy is missing his finger arrow), but that's because I have a lot of low furniture and a very excitable dog.

[TarlSS]

Has M2E Misaki changed anything or is she pretty much the same?

[Valtyr]

Misaki in M2E is still a pretty powerful model. Her base stats are good, and she has both a high damage, single target attack as well as a new attack that generates blasts (which she is also immune to). This, combined with her Diving Charge ability that lets her Cg out of melee, means she is very hard to pin down and 'tarpit' with numerous, inexpensive models.

Dependant upon which Limited upgrade you take, Misaki will go down one of two very different paths. Disguise coupled with Flickering Bisento and Misdirection will make Misaki a lot, lot more survivable than she has any right to be - unable to be targeted by charges, able to gain the Defensive condition for free and, if an enemy does get through all that, she can pass those successful strikes onto other models instead. Alternatively, taking Stalking Bisento, Cutpurse and Flickering Bisento/Misdirection will turn Misaki into a very dangerous melee model. She can Stalk a target, allowing her to move closer to a model whenever it moves, gets a to both attack and damage against that target, AND gets to make a Bisento Strike as a (0). Most models will not survive that. If she desires she can use Cutpurse to steal enemy stones, whilst Flickering Bisento or Misdirection work to keep her alive.

All in all, Misaki came out of the 2E evolution very well. She can still kill stuff very effectively, if you build her that way, but she has options should you decide to go down a different route.

- Valtyr