Malifaux 2.0 Through the breach transcript highlights

[kasin666]

or for that matter can the avatar use the upgrades?

[Blog]

The beta needs to hurry up and get here! I need to know If I should get back in to Malifaux lol. Super pumped to see what book 1 masters do now. It's a shame my two fav masters (Yan Lo and Kirai) have to wait a while after before I get to see their 2e rules.

[Clement]

With the caveat that it's subject to change:

Every time the master activates, you flip a card. You may cheat this card. It is removed from the deck completely and put into a Manifest Stack. When that stack reaches a total equal to a certain target number (varies by master), the master Manifests. Then, every turn, one CARD is removed from that stack and put back into the deck. When the stack is empty, the master reverts to normal form.

So you can cheat lower cards to get them out of your deck and delay manifesting, but have it last longer once you're up. Or, you can throw high cards at it, and manifest quickly, but burn out faster as well. They've mentioned they think being able to remove the black Joker from your deck may be too powerful and may have to have some specific rule for it, but were unsure what that rule would be at this point.

I thought it was every time the master got hit they lost a card... once a turn would be amazing.

[NIGHTHATER]

So we have all read the changes coming up and so meny people are overly happy jumping up and down clapping wildly, and I'm trying to figure out if anyones seeing this the way I am.

Justice is my master and has a defence 5

the average attack is 5+C.B. or higher. If I cant S.S. to get higher almost every attack at me hits. Prevent flips kinda help, but get real...everyones like who cares im still hitting and more likely doing some damage. Spend a S.S. for a +def flip is kinda who cares if the attackers a 5+C.B. they play a hand card you cant beat...I mean your lower or tied for def. A -flip for damage is who cares because the attackers was like whatevers I had a -flip anyway now I get 2 weaks over 1 whatevers.

So where are my other Justices, and 5 or lower defence masters at, that kinda need to be up there to play. Do we need to switch masters in 2.0?

NIGHTHATER

[Grim]

Opposite for me, I really abhor that pre-measuring will be in the game. This is a game where it is high risk for high reward, when you miss that charge, or cast that spell and lost that AP because you guessed range wrong, it can swing a game. Losing that loses a large part of the game imo.

I agree.

---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

No bebbe, December 2013.

---------- Post added 05-02-2013 at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was 05-01-2013 at 11:44 PM ----------

Are Minions and Peons going to get a built in walk action?

The above list that you quoted is upgrade slots, not APs

[caen]

From my experience (Flames of War) pre-measuring also slows down the game - before players will do anything they tend to measure anything - just because they can do it.

[Barbagianni]

So we have all read the changes coming up and so meny people are overly happy jumping up and down clapping wildly, and I'm trying to figure out if anyones seeing this the way I am.

Justice is my master and has a defence 5

the average attack is 5+C.B. or higher. If I cant S.S. to get higher almost every attack at me hits. Prevent flips kinda help, but get real...everyones like who cares im still hitting and more likely doing some damage. Spend a S.S. for a +def flip is kinda who cares if the attackers a 5+C.B. they play a hand card you cant beat...I mean your lower or tied for def. A -flip for damage is who cares because the attackers was like whatevers I had a -flip anyway now I get 2 weaks over 1 whatevers.

So where are my other Justices, and 5 or lower defence masters at, that kinda need to be up there to play. Do we need to switch masters in 2.0?

NIGHTHATER

I see your point here, but it's:

a-open beta. If we can prove def 5 melee masters are sub-par, there's still time to change them.

b-maybe the stats have already been changed to reflect that.

c-maybe there's some other way to get protection and/or healing.

Edit: pre-measuring scares me too, but maybe you can pre-measure only from the model you have activated.

[Ausplosions]

So we have all read the changes coming up and so meny people are overly happy jumping up and down clapping wildly, and I'm trying to figure out if anyones seeing this the way I am.

Justice is my master and has a defence 5

the average attack is 5+C.B. or higher. If I cant S.S. to get higher almost every attack at me hits. Prevent flips kinda help, but get real...everyones like who cares im still hitting and more likely doing some damage. Spend a S.S. for a +def flip is kinda who cares if the attackers a 5+C.B. they play a hand card you cant beat...I mean your lower or tied for def. A -flip for damage is who cares because the attackers was like whatevers I had a -flip anyway now I get 2 weaks over 1 whatevers.

So where are my other Justices, and 5 or lower defence masters at, that kinda need to be up there to play. Do we need to switch masters in 2.0?

NIGHTHATER

'QUICK EVERYONE!

THE SKY IS FALLING!"

"How do you know? "

"I DONT HAVE ANY SOLID INFORMATION WHAT-SO-EVER APART FROM MY OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE TINY TIDBITS WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN.

BUT IT MUST BE!!

DOOOOOOOOOOM!"

[Fetid Strumpet]

Can I have Hot Chocolate with my doom?

*dips the DOOM into the mug*

Mmmmmm chocolaty doom!

[Jonas Albrecht]

Can't have a new edition without people losing their **** over things.

Speaking of, it looks like The Gamer's Lounge is out of the running for now, and it doesn't sound hopeful for their future as a Malifaux podcast. It's a shame, as they were my favorite.

[poulpox]

Are there anymore transcripts from new podcasts wave of the M2E changes? I saw a couple of things on avatars, anything else?

[Poko]

Well..that lured me out of hibernation, all of this hinted so far is excellent news. Tidying up abilities is great, as is the re-balancing (I quit about halfway after Rising Powers, as the Book 2 Masters simply had much better synergy and well, they all focused on exhausting the enemy, which made game vs them a painful grind). The thing about no more extra-card added from SS is probably my favourite rules-wise change as I hated the fact you could just make an attack completely unblockable. And last, whoever came up with pre-measuring, THANK YOU SO MUCH! Thank you for rewarding TACTICS AND DECISIONS instead of simple physiological advantage of being better at range-guessing. "Blind diststances" is as fair in a wargame as making the models out of bacon and rewarding the player with better taste buds, and as pertinent to the actual game. So again, it might be a minor improvement, but as a stout fan of good game practices, THANKS!

[HtUnliving]

Some wargames are better with premeasuring, others not so much, imo. Time will tell which group includes Malifaux.

Any news on how upgrade buying to non-peons are affected by WYSIWYG (basically do the upgrades show on the model)?

(EDIT: Yey, my 100th post! ^^)

[Uncle Caveman]

Can't have a new edition without people losing their **** over things.

Speaking of, it looks like The Gamer's Lounge is out of the running for now, and it doesn't sound hopeful for their future as a Malifaux podcast. It's a shame, as they were my favorite.

Complaining, even done non constructively, is necessary. What good is a game without a reasonable base of people to play it? I always get mad when a game conforms to people who do not fully grasp it to make it more acceptable to the masses. Premeasureming is a solid example of this. Because some people have a slight edge in spacial awareness the playing field must be leveled? That being said, if the new rules hold an important mechanic that necessitates premeasuring then I am all for it. If something you enjoy doing, such as playing Malifaux, changes and you see no reason for it you will be disenchanted with the game. If you enjoyed it and now no longer want to play, then the game has gone in the wrong direction. I personally reserve judgement for a final product and do not bother with the wailing and gnashing of teeth until I can see how all the changes I am uncomfortable with play in relation to each other. Sometimes little things I do not like are necessary in order to create a total package that I do like. Jumping on people for being unhappy with changes to something they like makes absolutely no sense.

[Poko]

If you enjoyed it and now no longer want to play, then the game has gone in the wrong direction.

No. The game is going the wrong direction if the number of sales dwindle instead of growing. Just saying, it's a business.

[Uncle Caveman]

It is a business. I wasn't disputing that. How exactly does losing players boost sales? Have new editions proven to boost sales? In any company you prepare for loss when you make changes. The growth has to justify said loss. I wasn't talking about that in any case. I was simply saying that complaints are justified. If people hated the game they wouldn't say anything. Well, some wouldn't. Some are just jerks.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Premeasureming is a solid example of this. Because some people have a slight edge in spacial awareness the playing field must be leveled?

Yes?

[thebarbalag]

Any news on how upgrade buying to non-peons are affected by WYSIWYG (basically do the upgrades show on the model)?

(EDIT: Yey, my 100th post! ^^)

If I remember correctly, Mack said on one of the casts that upgrades are not represented on the model. They tend to be tricks, spells, supernatural abilities, something they had in their pocket that gives them another ability. For example, Seamus's Mad Haberdashery ability which (don't know the rule exactly, just what was said in interviews) allows him to get hit in the hat, rather than the head, as a defensive ability. Or, Sonnia's Violation of Magic upgrade, which turns enemy models killed by burning counters in a certain range into Witchling Stalkers. I suspect to also see things like swigs of moonshine for gremlins, or "modifications" to constructs, none of which really need to be visible on the model.

[Ausplosions]

Can't have a new edition without people losing their **** over things.

Speaking of, it looks like The Gamer's Lounge is out of the running for now, and it doesn't sound hopeful for their future as a Malifaux podcast. It's a shame, as they were my favorite.

Hey Jonas, what's happened with the gamers lounge?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Hey Jonas, what's happened with the gamers lounge?

http://gamerslounge.coda.net/

http://deadtau.blogspot.com/

[Ausplosions]

Actually, never mind. I just read the little cry he had on his blog.

[Math Mathonwy]

Premeasureming is a solid example of this. Because some people have a slight edge in spacial awareness the playing field must be leveled?

Spoken like someone who has never played a skirmish game with pre-measuring. It isn't about how spatial awareness. Because no matter what sort of a wizard you are, you won't be able to always put your models exactly 8.1" from three different enemy models while just extending the edge of your 4" aura to affect a spot 29mm from the objective where you plan to put a model.

Seriously, pre-measuring makes things a lot more tactical. If you haven't experienced it, you probably won't be able to appreciate the magnitude of the change.

[Gorbad]

Here is the thing about pre-measuring as I see it. Guessing range isn't particularly fun or interesting. I can do it, I've done it for two decades, but its a lot more fun to play the game. If my opponent is standing there looking at the table its much more interesting if he is considering if X is an good thing to do or if Y would be a better choice rather than thinking about if he is in range for X or Y. I want the game time to be spent on playing the game, and premeasuring reduce the time that's spent on doing "information gathering" (reading rules, staring at the table doing trigonometry/guessing, etc). All my experience with it is that it leads to better, faster and more fun games. These days I'm always slightly disappointed when a game doesn't include it, because its just a rather old-fashioned aspect that IMO doesn't actually add to the enjoyment of the game it self. Its just a thing we have grown to expect being their, but there is no good reason for it to be there.

[HtUnliving]

Thanks thegarbalag. I'm happy for this.

And Gorbad does have a point... But we'll see how Malifaux fits in. I just have warm memories of old FB and 40k artillery that were guessing weapons... Ahh,ye olden times. (I know,an unfair and unwanted comparison but was just reminded of the better times when those games were still fun)

[Poko]

I just have warm memories of old FB and 40k artillery that were guessing weapons

I do too. I can't gauge distance on table to save my life. My opponent, one of the regular ones, was able to guess accurately up to about 0,5". It was as fun as having your tooth pulled to be honest, because I occasionally guessed right, while he was able to snipe my regiments however he wanted. Not because he was a better tactician, but solely because his spatial awareness was better. I'm better at writing than he is, but sadly no game takes that into account for some reason, despite it being as valid a skill in a wargame.