M2E: Master abililities that are "Must haves"

[Athan Allgood]

As per the podcast interviews, it has been stated that some Master abilities will be taken off their "base" version and available as "upgrades".

For example, on the Malifools podcast it was stated that Sonnia's ability to make Witchling Stalkers would be pushed to being part of an upgrade.

So, my question is thus: What abilities are so essential to your chosen masters that they are an absolute requirement for that master? Stated otherwise, what "add-ons" would become auto-adds if they included said ability?

For me, Rasputina requires three abilities to be complete: Ice Pillars, Biting Chill, and Decembers Curse. Without those, she isn't Raspy.

[bsimon]

It may also be 0 points for base package, +X for "pick 3 of these", +Y for "get all of these".

Personally, Pandora: Emotional Trauma, Expose Fears would be crucial. Box Opens you may choose based on opponent. By the same token, while Lilith's Master of Malifaux is huge for the average board, if you get a board with 4 pieces of terrain that may have just become another Terror Tot. =)

[Borzag]

Colette: Artificial Soulstone, Blinding Flash. It'd be nice to keep Soulstone Augury but not essential (that'd quiet down the people that think it's too easy to get her trigger). Ditto the swap ability.

Nicodem: That ability where he counts as Undead (don't lock him in as Undead!), Zombie Master.

Ophelia: "Oooh, a GIRL!!!" (I just like saying that)

Lynch: Slave to Darkness, Cheatin' Bastard. They just make him work, and it'd be easier than trying to assign a cost to Huggy.

Speaking of... Hungering Darkness: Symbiote, Spirit. Float is nice but not essential.

Rasputina: pretty much what you said.

Ramos: if they can upgrade spells, lose the Electrical Creation and have that as an upgrade. Yes it's fun, but let's see if those Ramos players can play without it

Seamus: Belles of the Ball, Terror

Pandora: Df 3. Everything else can go.

Marcus: Widdling on trees in general really.

[rgarbonzo]

Somer - Pull My Finger

[snitter]

I'd like to get people's views on this whole upgrade thing. Everything else I've heard about the V2 changes makes a lot of sense. But...this...I dunno.

Something about it just seems...gimmicky, I guess. Is it necessary? Does it add to the game at all?

Thoughts?

[Borzag]

I'd like to get people's views on this whole upgrade thing. Everything else I've heard about the V2 changes makes a lot of sense. But...this...I dunno.

Something about it just seems...gimmicky, I guess. Is it necessary? Does it add to the game at all?

Thoughts?

Glad someone else raised this before me.

Gimmick, certainly. I like the idea of "plug & play" lists, especially if the whole issue of picking scenarios before picking lists happens (or in general really). Thinking about additional upgrades would slow things down, and takes away from the built-in character of the pieces. And may also slow down play; "wait, your Pandora does this but his does that? That does not compute!"

Having said that, if it's in it's in, and not much we can do about it now. So may as well work around it I suppose.

[rgarbonzo]

Seems quite similar to the Puppet Wars upgrades. Now I haven't played the new Unstiched nor am I currently in the Beta for 2.0. I like the idea of rebalancing but the upgrade system does seem a bit well... wyrd? Until I can look at it and see how it plays I'll reserve judgement, it sounds like it is for an "advanced" or "competitive" Malifaux enviroment

[Jonas Albrecht]

I'd like to get people's views on this whole upgrade thing. Everything else I've heard about the V2 changes makes a lot of sense. But...this...I dunno.

Something about it just seems...gimmicky, I guess. Is it necessary? Does it add to the game at all?

Thoughts?

We'll know for sure during the playtest, but at the moment I think it does.

McCabe uses a seemingly similar concept, and it makes him incredibly fun and versatile.

[rgarbonzo]

McCabe uses a seemingly similar concept, and it makes him incredibly fun and versatile.

I was thinking the same thing like McCabe and Yan Lo

[snitter]

I was thinking the same thing like McCabe and Yan Lo

Thanks, that gives me something to go on. I'm not familiar with either of them, but I can read over their stats when I get home. Otherwise, I'm just guessing.

[i_was_like_you]

McCabe's Relic Cache and Yan Lo's Paths seem like they were the dry run for this system. Further tinkering being done during the upgrades from the Campaign Rules. Now for more spit and polish to see if we can make it really shine.

[pixelante]

There will probably be auto includes for tournament play, but I imagine it would be a good way to change things up in casual play and hey if its works well enough it could become part of the casters arsenal.

[DeleteAccount]

I like the idea, but it will be as good as the balance of the abilities. If it's 3 autoincludes and 3 useless one, it achieves nothing, but if it manages to have 4 interesting but not necesary, 1 autoinclude and one situational it can work a lot better. That's where the betatesting comes into it anyway.

[Mike3838]

My impression from what I've heard is that a fully upgraded Master will look very similar to how they look in the current rules. You can choose to take less upgrades to end up with a slightly simpler model, but it isn't going to be doing anything drastically different in terms of playstyle.

[snitter]

I may well be shot for this, but having had a beer and refreshed my limited knowledge of Yan Lo and McCabe, my gut feeling is "gimmick". Especially Yan Lo.

My impression from what I've heard is that a fully upgraded Master will look very similar to how they look in the current rules.

In which case, wouldn't the sensible thing be to --

Ah! Realisation just hit!

-- Sonnia's ability to create Witchling Stalkers isn't necessary for this Encounter, therefore I can dispense with it and the extra point(s) gets me up to the extra I need for that Executioner...

Now that I look at it like that...that changes things...I need another beer.

But before I go, I still think Yan Lo is gimmicky. (But Mike3838 may well be a genius.)

[Mike3838]

And by taking a few abilities off her card, suddenly the up-front learning required for a beginner to "pick-up-and-play" Malifaux is greatly reduced.

Assuming they can keep the Sonnia "feel" in her simplified/reduced form (a difficult proposition, but a *very* important part of what makes Malifaux great, for me), then I'm cautiously optimistic that this could work...

[poulpox]

I hope there will be some "ability packs" for masters to choose a preset of abilities combo for players who don't want to spend ages thinking about it. Too many choicers can kill the fun. For instance you could pick Z as your master and then either pick your abilities freely, or choose from 3 combo "shooty Z" or "summon Z" or "obey Z" styles or something like this?

[Pierowmaniac]

At least when demoing I'm hoping in the future I wont have to say

'oh yeah just forget those abilities for the time being'

[Mike3838]

I hope there will be some "ability packs" for masters to choose a preset of abilities combo for players who don't want to spend ages thinking about it. Too many choicers can kill the fun. For instance you could pick Z as your master and then either pick your abilities freely, or choose from 3 combo "shooty Z" or "summon Z" or "obey Z" styles or something like this?

I hope not - "Summoner Z" or "Shooty Z" stop being "Z"

If she can switch up her playstyle completely, she loses her character and individuality.

[i_was_like_you]

That, and what tends to make the masters shine is their sheer versatility. I may not have sumoned a stalker for 5 turns, but suddenly getting my opportunity on turn 6, grabbing my objective, and winning vp, can make or break things. Not taking Violation of Magic along for the ride just because I rarely get a chance to use it, short changes my possibilities. Taking it just in case might hinder my resources. Either way, I might be kicking myself for the decision.

[Sevorin]

I like the idea, but it will be as good as the balance of the abilities. If it's 3 autoincludes and 3 useless one, it achieves nothing, but if it manages to have 4 interesting but not necesary, 1 autoinclude and one situational it can work a lot better. That's where the betatesting comes into it anyway.

This; definitely this. Playing McCabe (admittedly only a few times) but each time I pick the same abilities because, well, the other abilities just aren't as good imo. I'm not sure if they can get by this though...when given choices for something the cream choices always tend to rise to the top.

[i_was_like_you]

This; definitely this. Playing McCabe (admittedly only a few times) but each time I pick the same abilities because, well, the other abilities just aren't as good imo. I'm not sure if they can get by this though...when given choices for something the cream choices always tend to rise to the top.

Strange Metal Shirt and Invigorating Bridle...Maybe take one more to taste. But with those two, coupled with his Bearskin Armor and In The Thick Of It, make him soooo resilient. I let Collodi and his dolls attempt to tickle him into submission, push out of there, giving most, if not all of them slow, and let the rest of my crew complete my objectives.

[snitter]

It sounds like, overall, the upgrades are not really an issue if they're not mutually exclusive (the bone path vs the pinata path/Caster Z vs Melee Z). Frankly, I don't want to choose which version of Lady J I take into a game: she's Lady J, after all. She has a personality and I don't think I should have to choose between different abilities. (That's probably why I don't much like Avatars, I guess.)

And, since I play Colette as much as all my other masters combined, I feel that all her abilities are must-haves.

[jimbob123432]

For my masters:

Colette needs Blidning Flash and Magician's Duel (so her birds can be better suicide bombers).

Misaki needs, NEEDS You're Mine

Hamelin needs... the thing that sacks friendly models for Wounds and cards (I'm forgetting it right now for some reason).

[Dracomax]

The only thing I worry here is that if the master is split to more than 3 upgrades, that's a problem. That being said, Sonnia requires Flame burst(with the ability to do the 2 inch off target with blast) Counterspell, and her runeblade.

Ramos needs spider making, lightning shooting, and the ability to hire cross-faction constructs

Hoffman needs maintain machines, machine puppet, and his freaking avatar to exist.

Leveticus without the death/rebirth cycle isn't levi.

I honestly can't see Mei Feng without her triggers.

Lady J just needs to do lots of damage.

Kaeris needs to burn things.

Collette...I'm not sure about her, because with the new soulstone rules, I can't imagine more than half her abilities working at all the same as they do now.