How to deal with spirit heavy crews like Kirai

[Bacms]

Hey guys,

I have been trying a lot harder to make a marcus crew work and since my flatmate uses a Kirai crew with Izamu that is the one I have been having more experiences with. But I am starting to feel there isn't much I can do about it. With guild my other faction I realized the inclusion of an exorcist was sufficient to try the tables around and that the use of armored target is pretty useless.

So my question is what is the answers Arcanists have against this guys?

Seem that our best minions are useless against spirits, Mei Feng and her crew are dependent on armor which they can ignore, they have more or similar mobility to Marcus crews, Izamu and Dead rider are immune to influence so Kaeris can put her big damage spells on them and as much as you can keep up with the killing they just came back. The only answer I have is Marcus but even him can only normal take one big hitter like Izamu on a lucky day before going down.

And yes we all know Izamu is broken but there isn't much we can do about it for now.

[Huang Da Wei]

I dont have an Arcanist crew myself but I have played with Kirai before, the thing she hates most is blast markers. If she is surrounded by Seishin they will pop.

Izamu is tough, I like having him in my Yan Lo crew and he kicks butt, sadly in some games he has not earned his points, my ability to flip low cards mean he aint so tough. Like all big guys, take him down with lots of small hits from a distance.Spirit and armour still takes at least 1 wound per hit.

[Bacms]

I dont have an Arcanist crew myself but I have played with Kirai before, the thing she hates most is blast markers. If she is surrounded by Seishin they will pop.

Izamu is tough, I like having him in my Yan Lo crew and he kicks butt, sadly in some games he has not earned his points, my ability to flip low cards mean he aint so tough. Like all big guys, take him down with lots of small hits from a distance.Spirit and armour still takes at least 1 wound per hit.

Thanks for the help. Problem with the blast theory on the seishin is being able to actually get a shot on them. They are normally far behing and to get there you need to face Izamu as his positive on damage sword. Plus I really don't know many arcanist models with blasts so maybe someone that plays arcanists can help. My answers at the moment are gunsmiths and kaeris but even those require moderate or severe on damage, which is pretty situation since the damage is halved so you need two shots to kill seishin.

Regards Izamu the problem is the same, yes loads of small attacks probably work, but where can we get these ones from?

[Huang Da Wei]

A convict gunslinger could lay down some hurt with possible 3 shots plus triggers per turn.

I have to say I am not familiar with the Arcanists so cant help with who has blasts, Ideally you need one with magic shooting, they wont be halving that.

This is one of the best things about Malifaux.....how do I do this, how can I achieve that

good luck

[Fetid Strumpet]

So the question is how often is Kirai turning Izamu into a spirit? there are only 4 cards in the entire deck that can do it, and for the duration until it happens, Izamu cannot get too far away from the Lost Love.

In anycase my general advice against that list is the advice I give to anyone trying to kill Kirai.

Kill her Seishin. She needs them not only to stay alive, but to do almost all of her tricks. Kill them and you cripple her. If he is sending Izamu forward to deal with you before it is turned into a spirit then the Lost Love, Kirai, or another spirit has to be tagging along somewhere. Kill the Lost love if possible, or kill the spirit that is tagging along so Kirai can't switch in the lost love when the card presents itself. In any case If you want to kill izamu, attack it with everything you have, target every attack you can muster against him and he will drop.

[xeth1313]

Wong, I haven't tried it yet myself. He has a ranged attack spell that splashed more magical damage. Also his Glowy ability allows him to give any one weapon in the crew Magical for the entire encounter when the game begins.

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

Also Wille can lay blasts and has bonuses against targets with the Object Characteristic.

[recklas]

If you are set on Marcus, I would just try to avoid Izamu. Ramos can take a lot of spider and the electrical creation to just ping damage off at minimal cost, where Rasputina can ice mirror through gamin that explode when they die anyway. Marcus on the other hand has very little to deal with spirits. I would take schemes and strategies that do not require interacting with my opponents crew and play avoidance like a Collette crew would. Snow Storm should be able to tank Izamu for a few turns, though I cannot remember if he is a beast or not, if you have him. Just my 2 cents

[Bacms]

I know it is supposed to be hard my flatmate used to cry all the time about this. But in reality has happened probably 75% of the time.

He normally out activates me and then move Izamu last. Might be a good idea to force him to move Izamu ahead by threatening to throw something at him. Also soulstone miner sounds a good option against Kirai. Bury him, re appear burn a couple of soulstones and have him blasting away .

I definetly need to find a way to have access to the last book. Is the only one I am missing and seems to have all the good toys at the moment. Shame it does have more beast though. Will read the pullmyfinger entries for wong and willie

[CannonFodder]

If you want to kill spirits look at Johan & Taelor. This hammers are magical and eat spiritis for breakfast.

If you want to deal with Kirai, look at Ramos. his constructs don't give her Setchin (Typo?).

Lastly Colette crew I find can deal with her. Disapearing act can remove a Shikohme easily. Magician duels from a dove is fun. and the doves don't give Setchins. Basically you doves cost you a SS, they easily kill a Setchin, and get you back a dove. Your opponent has to spend AP to deal with you doves, or you get a SS next turn or killing another setchin.

HInt: Disapearing Act Johan and drop him engaging a couple things. This scares the Bejesus out of people. you'l probably lose him but he forces you opponent to dedicate a lot of points in one turn, and you can usually trade it for more more points.

[Gorbad]

Breath Fire from Cassandra can also be quite useful against lots of spirits. Magical and up to two blast templates, you can even get it as a trigger (with luck).

[rgarbonzo]

Staying strictly Arcanists Gunsmiths and Union Miners, Gunsmiths for the positive twist on undead and Union Miners for the wrecking of Izamu. OOF Taelor, Johan, Wong, Ronin, Von Schill, Freikorp Specialist

[OldManMyke]

Willie puts out plenty of blasts, helps with board control and most importantly can ignore Izamus object

[Rifter]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Rasputina. Move up an ice gamin, and then mirror through it. She has a great spell that has blasts. I used it to GREAT affect when I faced Kirai. Once I figured out to blast her spirits, and not her, it went fast.

[geistwald]

Staying strictly Arcanists Gunsmiths and Union Miners, Gunsmiths for the positive twist on undead and Union Miners for the wrecking of Izamu.

Actually union miners don't excel vs Izamu... sure it can't activate riposte, but in practice the miners still do 1/1/3 damage to it.

[Bacms]

Actually union miners don't excel vs Izamu... sure it can't activate riposte, but in practice the miners still do 1/1/3 damage to it.

Yes the main problem is most models will be at a negative and with it's object 2 you will be doing 1 damage most of the time.

Regarding Johan it looks good but definitely feels like he needs another M&SU members otherwise it is not worth it. Kaelor looks incredible as well, a true beast but her lack of mobility will be a problem on a Marcus crew so I feel they both fit better into a Ramos or Mei feng crew.

I only have Marcus, Mei Feng, Colette and Kaeris at the moment so Rasp is not an option. I plan to expand to a Ramos crew at some point but not interested in Rasp at all. Even Ramos will probably won't be for a while since I just started my 4th year of the PhD for which I have no scholarship

[HalcyonSeraph]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Rasputina. Move up an ice gamin, and then mirror through it. She has a great spell that has blasts. I used it to GREAT affect when I faced Kirai. Once I figured out to blast her spirits, and not her, it went fast.

Kirai can sacrifice one Seishin at the beginning of any models activation to make her and all the seishin immune to blasts for the duration of that model's activation. So blasts aren't as good as they seem against her, but at least you are getting one guaranteed seishin off the board.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Ahhh, but that still works in your favor. As soon as raspy activates before she even does anything Kirai has to decide right then if she will sac the Seishin, which means if she does you are up on seishin without having to do anything. If she forgets they all die. It means that Kirai is going to lose a seishin every single turn she is in range of raspy, and so what if you can't blast them all into oblivion. Take to free sac'd one, and then toss three spells at 3 seishin and kill them, that's 4 of her max possible total of 5 right there.

[rgarbonzo]

Rioter: This models damage flips against game elements with Hardness, models with the Object characteristic and markers recieve + and inflict +1 damage.

Union miners get a positive twist on damage for the object characteristic on Izamu as well as +1 damage so the spread looks like 2/3/5. For a cost of 4 not a bad investment.

[ClayWeeks]

Kang also really helps. Get him on a negatives on resist duels and he is doomed.

[Bacms]

Kang also really helps. Get him on a negatives on resist duels and he is doomed.

So glad you mentioned him. I tried him twice while I had no idea how Mei Feng or even the game worked so the card didn't make much sense. Now that I can know which means seems I might have found the perfect partner for Johan

[i_was_like_you]

So glad you mentioned him. I tried him twice while I had no idea how Mei Feng or even the game worked so the card didn't make much sense. Now that I can know which means seems I might have found the perfect partner for Johan

Very good partner for Johan. Keep 'em within 3" of each other and Johan gets two boosts to cb, his own and Kang's aura (which needs activated, but still worth it). Pos flips after Kang kills a non-living model are also great.

[geistwald]

Rioter: This models damage flips against game elements with Hardness, models with the Object characteristic and markers recieve + and inflict +1 damage.

Union miners get a positive twist on damage for the object characteristic on Izamu as well as +1 damage so the spread looks like 2/3/5. For a cost of 4 not a bad investment.

The -2wd from object2 still applies, so the spread looks like 1/1/3. With a positive flip, of course.

[011121]

I'm guessing here but if you are fighting spirits with marcus isn't the rogue necromancy an option? I seem to recall it's a beast, and it has a nice area of effect spell with an area of effect. That sounds about perfect for tagging spirits. It's entirely possible I'm forgetting something that makes this a bad idea but you might consider it.

Also doesn't kirai rely on killing living or undead models in order to produce new seishen? If so take a construct heavy force. Arcanists got those in abundance.

EDIT "area of effect spell with an area of effect"? Jeebus, gotta remember not to post at 3 in the morning.

Edited April 9, 2013 by 011121

[Bacms]

Also doesn't kirai rely on killing living or undead models in order to produce new seishen? If so take a construct heavy force. Arcanists got those in abundance.

Kind of it is true she gets them whenever a living,spirit or undead model is killed within 8 inches of her I believe. So she still gets them from their crew.

Rgarding rogue necromancy yes it is a beast but just seems to me a more expensive sabertooth. Need to take a second look at it

[i_was_like_you]

Theoryfaux: Have Marcus Lawyer up. With Furious Casting, it could use Prosecute to make three Seishin no longer friendly to Kirai. If they're not friendly, neither one can benefit the other.