Undead Constructs and the counters they drop ?

[Drool_bucket]

So, I did some searching here and didn't find a solid answer.

Most undead constructs clearly state on their cards what kinds of counters they drop if a Scavenger and/or Graverobber are in play. Necropunks, SPAs, Dead Rider and a Steamborg all come to mind.

My issue is with Dust Storm from Ash & Dust from Rising Powers. Ashes & Dust and the Ashen Core both have specific rules that prevent them from dropping counters.

Dust Storm definitely does not. And it's not a Spirit. It is an Undead Construct.

So, assuming both a Scavenger and a Graverobber are in play, and Dust Storm is Killed, what counters does it drop?

Two of each?

One of each?

Two of the owner's choice?

Two of the "killer's" choice?

I have heard a lot of suggestions and theories but nothing definitive?

Thoughts? Does anyone have something they can quote too?

[xeth1313]

This actually cam up in my first game with them. Dust storm went down I was playing a scavenger and my opponent was playing a grave robber. I just kinda figured they were supposed to have an ability like the SPA's.

[Dracomax]

I don't have the card with me, but I can venture a guess--it would never be 2 of each, because even a 50 mm unit only drops 3 counters.

IIRC, it's 40 mm., so if it drops counters it would drop either 1 of each, or 2 of one or the other.

Personally, I don't think it's meant to drop any counters.

[Golden]

I think that was revised on Dust Storm's card that it does'nt drop counters either. Ive always thought that constructs leave nothing but scrap unless they have an ability that says otherwise, like the ones you mentioned.

[spydr261]

Ashen Core has "Decayed: This model does not generate Counters of any kind when killed."

Dust Storm doesn't have this ability. However, I'm with Dracomax and I think it was supposed to.

[Hateful Darkblack]

But what happens when Zoraida Hexes those abilities off?

[Trevelyan]

But what happens when Zoraida Hexes those abilities off?

You point and laugh because that is almost certainly a waste of a spell regardless of what counter might drop.

[Drool_bucket]

I'd really like to get an answer for this quesiton, seeing as I think it's a legit issue that can and will continue to come up for me...

and TedPro's question is a good one because it can happen and an answer would be nice.

[Dracomax]

More likely, Levi will bring Hoffman in a brawl, and he'll be close enough they can just ignore that part of the card.

I'd guess, in a situation where the requisite abilities are, for one reson or another, ignored, 1 of each for a 40 mm base, and when it doesn' come even, 1 more scrap than corpse- i.e. 1 corpse, 2 scrap for ashes and dust.

[CRC]

Last time we hashed this out it, iirc, was generally agreed that despite clear intention, the rules say that it would drop 2 of each.

Graverobber makes it drop 2 corpses. Scavenger makes it drop 2 scrap. Neither references or prevents the other. There is no rule that limits drop to base size.

[Ausplosions]

^^^ that's how I see it.

[PeregrineFalcon]

If this were to come up in a tourney id rule it drops 2 of each if both a grave robber and scavenger were in play. Even though it probably isn't the intent it is per the rules as far as i can find.

P.S. it was the game the Drool_bucket and i played in that this came up. In the casual game we decide to <gasp>, use dice to decide.

[xeth1313]

I also have to say that I think it would drop both, This has been asked in a few places before actually.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?17694-Flesh-Construct-%28extra-corpse-counters-%29&highlight=Undead+Construct

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?29913-What-happens-if-Zoraida-Hexes-away-Decayed-Machine&highlight=Undead+Construct

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?33595-Dust-Storm-Counters&highlight=Undead+Construct

[Drool_bucket]

Yeah, I read all three of those threads. The closest we get to an "official" answer is in your first link in which Ratty declares that if there is a conflict (like Dust Storm offers us) the card will say... but it doesn't.

Now, I understand that's from 2011 and things have changed a bit.

The other two threads are conjecture, really. I guess I just have a real problem with a cloud of evil dust dropping more counters then any other model in the game... a couple body parts and a couple piles of metal while the Ashen Core gives up nothing... it's a fluff thing that frustrates! Just give Dust Storm spirit and be done with it!

I have no problem playing that it drops 2 of each because the clearest (and IMO best) interpretation is that neither Graverobber or Scavenger are exclusive rules. I just want Wyrd to get on it and fix it! (right after Nekima, obviously!!!)

[i_was_like_you]

If they give Dust Storm Spirit, then it'll be even more dangerous, unless they drop its wounds in an attempt to compensate, at which point it'll be too weak. They could just put the drops nothing clause on it, and it'll be fine.