Sidir, the 40mm Black Sheep

[Mr.Soulstone]

Hi Guys

Received my Relic Hunters box a couple of days ago and I am absolutely in love with the new models (and plastics in general, VERY IMPRESSED).

Sidir is by far my favourite model at the moment, followed closely by the Wastrels.

Scanning the forums however it seems that the opinion of Sidir is a little negative! I play Lucas and Perdita so was wondering if anyone knew the best ways to use Sidir in a game regarding SS size, schemes and strategies etc!

Any help would be well appreciated

Cam.

[Rameses]

I have yet to use him, but I'd hazard a guess by suggesting just "throw" him to the wolves and see how things turn out.

A good example: Yesterday I played my first game with LadyJ + Lucius. Mistakes were made in deployment and movement. But I learn a METERIC TON from this experience and I am better for it.

The same can be said for just throwing Sidri to the wolves. Keep him near(ish) to your Master and see what happens.

[Odin1981]

I think he would do very well in a lady j crew def 5 to 7 is one hell of a upgrade.

[rancor709]

He's a natural fit with jay as he's a bit more offensive while atill offering some protection to justice than the guardian is.

[Ozymandias79]

My last game with him he took one on the chin from the Dead Rider, then with the help of Luna, killed off the mounted bastard. He never got to fire his machine gun, but was a huge threat the entire game and finally fell to aSeamus. Overall I was very happy with his performance and for certain strats he'd be amazing (like king of the hill for example, Sidir can't be pulled off the objective).

[NeuroFire]

I adore Sidir and his versatility. One of the highest Wp stats in the game combined with Immovable means that he's not going to do anything you don't want him doing, but the great thing about Immovable is that McCabe or Dita can still move him, just the opponent that can't. So he'll hold his ground and probably won't be hurt by some of the nasty Wp spells in the game, so anyone facing Ressers or Neverborn should love him just for that.

As others have mentioned, he takes stuff apart if he gets the chance. Big gun, big sword, all good. And, with Camouflage and Always There, he has a really good chance of living to fight another turn (the only things I've faced that he hasn't managed to stand up to for long were Ototo and Izamu.) Alternately, the Camouflage and Hunting Blind are good ways to make sure other models can live to fight another turn, not to mention giving the Wastrels cover to use their movement trick.

He seems like a great Master bodyguard, but I haven't actually found that to be the best use for him. I think all his abilities are better spent shooting things and giving cover. Plus, if McCabe has full "In the Thick of it" Df and Camouflage going, he's Df 10 and probably doesn't need anyone jumping in front of him. Sidir could also give Dita Df 10. So, yeah, that's pretty amazing.

[i_was_like_you]

He seems like a great Master bodyguard, but I haven't actually found that to be the best use for him. I think all his abilities are better spent shooting things and giving cover. Plus, if McCabe has full "In the Thick of it" Df and Camouflage going, he's Df 10 and probably doesn't need anyone jumping in front of him. Sidir could also give Dita Df 10. So, yeah, that's pretty amazing.

It made for a great first turn. Sidir buffed McCabe then moved upfield. Later in the activations, McCabe charged into the fray against some o Hoffman's constructs. They couldn't even hit him.

[Ryu]

I love Sidir. Used him for the first time yesterday with Perdita - he didn't do much damage (Vik's made a B-line for him) but he did his job in protecting Perdita and Nino. Having two models with riposte/faster'n you in the same crew is also awesome. Not to mention the Df 10 thing and obscuring mentioned above.

[Mr.Soulstone]

Hmm

Will have to try some of these things out! DF 10 Perdita sounds hillarious!

Thankyou all so far

Cam.

[Odin1981]

In all honesty I would question my opponents intelligence if you made dita def 10 and they then made a attempt on her (only lady j would have a chance and even then it would cost them a ss'd ram plus one either naturally flipped or cheated from their hand).

It might seem cool to do but in all reality why would anyone invest the amount of flips let alone the resources required to bring her down at def 10.

[Omenbringer]

It might seem cool to do but in all reality why would anyone invest the amount of flips let alone the resources required to bring her down at def 10.

I generally agree with you however for a slightly diffirent reason. Buffing her already high Df higher really just reinforces the the use of things that already get around it.

[Odin1981]

Yeah but she is i2i wp 7 ca 7. The easiest thing to attack is ca 7 or using a ability that doesn't have a resist.

[i_was_like_you]

Yeah but she is i2i wp 7 ca 7. The easiest thing to attack is ca 7 or using a ability that doesn't have a resist.

That means Colette has a decent chance, dropping 'Dita down to ca 5.

Anyhow, it's situational. If I know my cards are so-so, and I want to tie up a bunch of models on the far side of the table, a df 10 Lucas is the right man and Perdita's the right woman for the job, barring any models with ways around it.

[Omenbringer]

The easiest thing to attack is ca 7 or using a ability that doesn't have a resist.

Exactly and there are a surprising number of those things in the game that are more than capable of droping her easily enough. Things like the Alpha Stank, the Bacon Bombing Assasination Run, Ramos' or Hoffman's Spider Bombs, Kirai's Immediate Revenge ability, Lucius Issuing Commands to Guild Austringers buffed by the Drill Sergeant, Samael, even basic Blasts (Evasive doesn't stop all the damage). This is before you consider things that induce negative flips (with no resists), deny cheating or Soul stone use like Jake Daws Severed Ties and Nix's Emptiness, when those are considered those resists aren't as reliable.

Dont get me wrong I'm not saying she is crap, just emphasizing the point that "super buffing" her naturally high defense is somewhat of a waste of resources since it does nothing to really counter the things that already work well against her.

[Ryu]

In all honesty I would question my opponents intelligence if you made dita def 10 and they then made a attempt on her (only lady j would have a chance and even then it would cost them a ss'd ram plus one either naturally flipped or cheated from their hand).

It might seem cool to do but in all reality why would anyone invest the amount of flips let alone the resources required to bring her down at def 10.

That's the thing though, this isn't a static equation. While yes you can say "Man dey D-U-M!" sometimes they need to go through you (like on a bridge, where I pulled this) for a strategy or a scheme. Are there ways around it? Of course, there's ways around everything but even with a negative defense flip you're looking at a min 11 def 'dita + soulstones. Not to mention Faster'n you and Quick Draw as deterrents. This was more about area denial and controlling my opponents actions than it was about "Haha you can't hit me!"

And it's not like Sidir is useless without using camo. Plus, most of that game he was using Camo on Nino - you're obviously not going to make a 10 df 'dita all game and expect people to attack her. He just brings so much to the table for my personal playstyle.

[Odin1981]

Exactly and there are a surprising number of those things in the game that are more than capable of droping her easily enough. Things like the Alpha Stank, the Bacon Bombing Assasination Run, Ramos' or Hoffman's Spider Bombs, Kirai's Immediate Revenge ability, Lucius Issuing Commands to Guild Austringers buffed by the Drill Sergeant, Samael, even basic Blasts (Evasive doesn't stop all the damage). This is before you consider things that induce negative flips (with no resists), deny cheating or Soul stone use like Jake Daws Severed Ties and Nix's Emptiness, when those are considered those resists aren't as reliable.

Dont get me wrong I'm not saying she is crap, just emphasizing the point that "super buffing" her naturally high defense is somewhat of a waste of resources since it does nothing to really counter the things that already work well against her.

Wasn't saying she couldn't be brought down. Just fail to see why according to the boards super buffed dita is so "cool".

To ryu: Especially considering if you are talking about a casual setting, you should never leave terrain as is if a strat forces a certain action to be done. At least in my opinion it isn't very sportsmanlike also to purposely pick something like that isn't cool at all. Heck even in most tournaments depending on the strat for each round judges will walk around and adjust terrain accordingly to ensure a fair deal to both sides on these matters so that their is a equal opportunity for both parties to complete stuff.

Also in regards to her triggers, who is gonna try to shoot perdita (maybe nino and von schill only)? Also the work around on quick draw is you walk into a model instead of charging spells our hampered but quick draw is a 1 use only not multiple.

[Ryu]

I understand your point but you're looking at this from a vacuum rather than organically. We picked an agreed upon map, there was a bridge on it - my opponent chose to go through it so I chose to stop him there - it being the best place to siphon his larger-than-mine crew into a single bottleneck. He could have chosen to go through somewhere else on the map that was more open, both crews had equal access to the bridge.

That's called tactics.

Additionally, you skipped over everything I said about it being about control rather than defense. 'Dita and Sidir were the only things he could attack on that bridge, so I effectively controlled a portion of his movements: Go back around or go through Dita and Sidir. He did the wise thing and took out Sidir first, then came for Dita.

Given the choice of attacking a df 10 dita blocking the path or doing nothing, most people will choose to attack the df 10 model. That's why Dita + Sidir is so potent - it gives your opponent something they have to deal with and counteract because you can plan ahead for it and place them in positions that will make your opponent uncomfortable. This isn't an auto-win by any means but it is extremely effective, especially against crews that attack df extensively.

Sadly, we're derailing the "Why is Sidir so awesome" thread into a "Why isn't a Df 10 Perdita so awesome?" thread, so if this will continue lets start another thread about it.

Sidir is awesome. I think we can agree upon that.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Ryu

[Odin1981]

A smart opponent using tactics will go around the bridge and get to models they can realistically hit.

[Omenbringer]

Wasn't saying she couldn't be brought down. Just fail to see why according to the boards super buffed dita is so "cool".

I am in agreement with you.

Also in regards to her triggers, who is gonna try to shoot perdita (maybe nino and von schill only)? Also the work around on quick draw is you walk into a model instead of charging spells our hampered but quick draw is a 1 use only not multiple.

Aside from only functioning against one selected ranged attack, Cast/Channel or Charge action, Quick Draw also requires both LOS and range to the attacker. Aside from the aforementioned Walk and Strike method mentioned there are plenty of others available once you figure out the limitiations (several of them are listed in my earlier incomplete list).

The Faster'n You trigger isn't much better despite not requiring LOS. It requires a :masks suit, duel success and is restricted to only functioing against Ranged Attacks. Also knowing that she can potentially do it just encourages the attacker to cheat the strike as high as possible to reduce the impact of any failed strikes (with the required :masks suit competing with Obey, Execute and the Anticipation trigger as well as several other triggers across the vanilla Ortega crew).

By no means am I saying Perdita is bad just that even "Super Buffed" and with her above average resist stats there are plenty of methods available to effectively deal with her (and the majority of them are the same as her non-"super buffed" form). I'd rather have another model in the crew benefit from higher than average Df than her, but to each his own.

Sadly, we're derailing the "Why is Sidir so awesome" thread into a "Why isn't a Df 10 Perdita so awesome?" thread, so if this will continue lets start another thread about it.

I would also agree that we are off the reservation in regards to this thread .

Edited March 13, 2013 by Omenbringer

[Odin1981]

By no means am I saying Perdita is bad just that even "Super Buffed" and with her above average resist stats there are plenty of methods available to effectively deal with her (and the majority of them are the same as her non-"super buffed" form). I'd rather have another model in the crew benefit from higher than average Df than her, but to each his own.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Sidir has always been worth his stone for my McCabe crew. I had one game where he laid down 3 models with 1 AP thanks to punch through. And another game where he felled Pandora! She had no stones and I was at a negative twist to WP duels. With IMPRESSIVE WP 9, I still got through and felled her good.

Sidir is auto include in my book. Plus McCabe giving him reactive is sick nasty and it scares the hell out of opponents. The power of psychology should not be ignored.