geistwald Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 The Oiran is out for a good while, and being a showgirl it seems to be a good fit in Colette lists, preferably ones without the Coryphee. However, few posted specific examples of crew builds or in-game experience. Most of us regard them as interesting options and plan to go along the Oiran/living showgirl line, but I can't find actual reports except for the theory machine. Now I want to ask you all to share your observations of the Oiran, extra Performers, Angelica or handy mercenaries (if you have any). So, how did you win w/o the Coryphee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'm more inclined running two (oiran) instead of cassandra now with the "attack errata" in. In all honesty I'm curious about Angelica cause I have tried her a couple times but I never felt the need to keep her in a list after trying her out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geistwald Posted February 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 So your alternate roster would be like Colette/Performer+Mannekin/2×Oiran/Duet/2×Dove? How do you plan to play this list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I've tried them for a few games, but I need more practise with them. So far they haven't done too much for me. I put that mainly down to lack of practise, I'm sure they have a place in the crew, just not quite sure how. Maybe instead of the performer(yes, I know). I think I'll have to try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 So your alternate roster would be like Colette/Performer+Mannekin/2×Oiran/Duet/2×Dove? How do you plan to play this list? Basically the manne linking to duet, having duet take down a model a turn outside of turn one and using oiran as buff bots (tranquil dance?) with one of them taking one for the team to draw out a manne model, performer vp gathering, colette just supporting the whole crew maybe vp'ing as well, and doves to follow around the duet if I don't win inititive so they "have soulstones" to use when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Goggles Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 So far for me the Oiran have been damage magnets. The Harmless mechanic is easier to get around then the Irresistable mechanic, so they tend to be easier to kill. Also lacking the granted reactivation on death makes killing them less of a risk as well. I've been trying to use them as more reliable lure bots, but they just get targeted like crazy for me before they're able to accomplish a lot. I have had some minor success with the hand manipulation they grant, but so far they seem to be one of the easier things for the opponent to kill, so they're an easy target in the early turns. Even with nasty tricks in my opponents face, they still will target and kill the Oiran. I once used the Duet to kill Nino in turn 1, and instead of dealing with that, my opponent killed the Oiran, because he could. I haven't seen any real die hard success with them yet, but I'm sure it's there, they have good mechanics, its just a matter of figuring out they're exact niche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geistwald Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 That's my problem too. Their spectacular defense mechanic is surprisingly easy to get around if your opponent wants to kill the thing, while he takes no risks trying. Lure is somewhat better and more reliable than Siren Call, but that's about all... Tranquil Dance fails to impress, and I gladly pay an extra SS for a similar model that brings another mannequin to the table. I haven't seen any real die hard success with them yet, but I'm sure it's there, they have good mechanics, its just a matter of figuring out they're exact niche. Yeah, that's why I started this topic, it would be a shame if Colette was the only master who doesn't profit from a showgirl model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCPeePants Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Seems like they should be a really solid defensive support and countercharge unit. Tranquil Dancing up front to keep people healthy, then providing moderate damage or stripping enemies of their suits on the offense. I suppose the trouble is they have to replace something, and they have trouble competing with the damage and insane speed of the duet and utility of the mannikins. Still, they're excellent models so I'll play 'em regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) So far for me the Oiran have been damage magnets. The Harmless mechanic is easier to get around then the Irresistable mechanic, so they tend to be easier to kill. Also lacking the granted reactivation on death makes killing them less of a risk as well. I've been trying to use them as more reliable lure bots, but they just get targeted like crazy for me before they're able to accomplish a lot. I have had some minor success with the hand manipulation they grant, but so far they seem to be one of the easier things for the opponent to kill, so they're an easy target in the early turns. Even with nasty tricks in my opponents face, they still will target and kill the Oiran. I once used the Duet to kill Nino in turn 1, and instead of dealing with that, my opponent killed the Oiran, because he could. I haven't seen any real die hard success with them yet, but I'm sure it's there, they have good mechanics, its just a matter of figuring out they're exact niche. That is why I feel they are good support models until they need to take one for the team. Tranquil Dance with the trigger doesn't drop harmless or regains them harmless. As you move up the non duet part of a list they put it up to dissuade charges against them, colette, or performer via tranquil. When it is decided to let one go for the team that one steps up and lures a model out of position to be focused on by your crew, if you don't have to walk the oiran you lure into a tranquil no suits for enemy models. The second one is like a performer in that you use it for vp or rear echelon fallback prevention (basically a better angelica due to more options to support besides fallback prevention/rally). Don't get me wrong though I'm am never saying they should go blazing forward into the front lines. But in theory due to having a + on damage flips when harmless they could be used to swapped in via colette to take a cheated in moderate or severe damage on a model with the no witness trigger as a finisher so that any model at 3-4 wounds remaining with no damage prevention (h2w, object, or armor) is a dead model but they themselves aren't putting the work in on said model to get them their (colette, or duet, or dove more than likely is). Basically I'm saying they are a second finisher piece in addition to colette for low(er) wound models. Edit: I have normally found the best use out of them so far in mei or misaki led 10 thunder crews but I have played like 3 games with them in a showgirl crew and like that they don't use ss so I am not tempted to prolong their death like I did with cassie (pre errata cassie really needs something now I feel with the attack errata I'd be tempted to say irresistable instead of harmless but that could be for another topic on another day). Edited February 19, 2013 by Odin1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroFire Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Also lacking the granted reactivation on death makes killing them less of a risk as well. I thought the Reactivate triggered when a friendly Showgirl died. Why wouldn't Oiran grant that? (I ask this having only played against a Showgirl crew, so I don't know all their nuances in and out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 only when a performer dies. called precious i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Goggles Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I thought the Reactivate triggered when a friendly Showgirl died. Why wouldn't Oiran grant that? (I ask this having only played against a Showgirl crew, so I don't know all their nuances in and out.) It's a specific rule that Performers have called Precious. When used right, you can bait your opponents into killing them and granting reactivate to, oh, say a conveniently placed Coryphee Duet or Cassandra. That possibility alone can get people to avoid targeting Performers. The rule allows a nearby friendly showgirl to reactivate, but it is not a universal rule across the crew... though that would be pretty cool. Since Oiran lack this rule, people feel free to kill them when they please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElementalEther Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) I once used the Duet to kill Nino in turn 1. How exactly did you manage to do that? In my interpretation of the replace rules the Duet would have a hard time making it into range melee range let alone getting there and doing the 2-3 melee attacks needed to kill Nino. Showgirls are really not designed to kill the other crew, they can do it but it takes some work, they really work best if you ignore the other crew as much as possible while completing your own objectives. In that light I feel that Oiran should be used in a few different ways. They can be used as jumping off points for Colette, since they can move to a location and then tank out with defensive stance. Their +1wp aura combined with Colette's +2wp aura gives the showgirls some of the highest wp stats in the game which can really mess with any crew that is throwing wp duels at you. Also Oiran's ability to rally friendly models can be great against a terrifying crew. Finally their lure can be combined with siren call to make a very nice combination. Lure can also be effectively used to pull models out of the way of Coryphee or Cassandra so that they can run around and pick up vp unhindered. Edited March 20, 2013 by ElementalEther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (pre errata cassie really needs something now I feel with the attack errata I'd be tempted to say irresistible instead of harmless but that could be for another topic on another day). ??? Would you elaborate in another thread? What errata on Attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Probably 2 ap walk with one coryphee placed within 4" of a double walked performer. 2nd cory places next to first cory then mighty morphing power ranger robot formed (duet). Then use cassie/colette/dove kill performer triggering precious select duet. Assuming standard deployment 6" line where cory start. +16" from walk. Duet still has fast maybe (0) subconcious normally 1/3 still left off 1st cory instinctual, whoever kills performer gains ss if via magicians duel triggers react so on 1st activation of duet still have fast + 1 (0). 9" fast plus 16" from double walk means when react goes you are 25" up the board 31" if you start at max standard deployment line. On react you have 3 ap to use with duet to kill nino and you are 5" from their board edge. Nino would die with those 3 ap in just about every case minus flipping a bj on damage from here 3 swings at a + damage flip (paired 7 combat doesn't miss def 4, unless they rj def flip and you don't stone to exceed 18 total). Turn 1 cory duet in enemy deployment zone with 3ap for attacking . What fun for the opponent for the cost of a performer model. ---------- Post added at 11:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ---------- I'll put the thread up in a day or two when I have time mate, probably after I get done watching nix vs ukocky vassal match if I can before the detroit ref wings (go wings go!!!) game is on . On how cassie got hurt by attack errata. Edited March 20, 2013 by Odin1981 homer hockey chant :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geistwald Posted March 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 What errata on Attack? Attacks =/= attack flips, because only strikes generate attack flips, other kinds of attacks don't. (Silly as it is.) That affects Souther Charm in a big way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Attacks =/= attack flips, because only strikes generate attack flips, other kinds of attacks don't. (Silly as it is.) That affects Souther Charm in a big way. Ouch. That's not cool. Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Havent tried the oiran yet but i've got one assembled. Maybe 1 oiran and Johan would be a good replacement for Cassandra sometimes? btw do people think Cassandra's understufy ability is useful with the oiran? ElementalEther: the showgirls are definitely great at objective hunting and avoidance, but they're actually very good at dealing out damage via some scary alpha strikes and combos. Theyre also very good at surgical strikes taking out critical models. When i win with colette i often table or nearly table the opponent. So i dont really agree with them not being designed to kill the enemy crew. Odin: that's a cool trick! Have to try that sometime edit: wait how can you use the fast ap on the duet's first activation to move a third time before gaining reactivate? The duets first third ap would be in the same activation as the coryphée using dance together. Am i missing something? Edited March 20, 2013 by Sybarite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElementalEther Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 ElementalEther: the showgirls are definitely great at objective hunting and avoidance, but they're actually very good at dealing out damage via some scary alpha strikes and combos. Theyre also very good at surgical strikes taking out critical models. When i win with colette i often table or nearly table the opponent. So i dont really agree with them not being designed to kill the enemy crew. What crews do you normally face? Odin: that's a cool trick! Have to try that sometime edit: wait how can you use the fast ap on the duet's first activation to move a third time before gaining reactivate? The duets first third ap would be in the same activation as the coryphée using dance together. Am i missing something? I actually looked up the replace rule last night. When you replace a model the replacing model continues the replaced models activation using any remaining general ap. The replacing model may use any special ap it has given that the replaced model did not already use that special ap. So if you made the second Coryphee fast and used the fast ap the Duet would not be able to use the fast ap that turn but other than that the Duet can use the fast ap on the turn it is created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 You get fast also on reactivation as well. ---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ---------- Havent tried the oiran yet but i've got one assembled. Maybe 1 oiran and Johan would be a good replacement for Cassandra sometimes? btw do people think Cassandra's understufy ability is useful with the oiran? ElementalEther: the showgirls are definitely great at objective hunting and avoidance, but they're actually very good at dealing out damage via some scary alpha strikes and combos. Theyre also very good at surgical strikes taking out critical models. When i win with colette i often table or nearly table the opponent. So i dont really agree with them not being designed to kill the enemy crew. Odin: that's a cool trick! Have to try that sometime edit: wait how can you use the fast ap on the duet's first activation to move a third time before gaining reactivate? The duets first third ap would be in the same activation as the coryphée using dance together. Am i missing something? Messed up the order in what I said you have to kill the performer before the 2nd cory swaps in and replaces so you form up and keep reactivate given to the cory by performer that dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 ElementalEther: quite a varied crowed actually but Jakob, Viks, Perdita, gremlins. Did it against McCabe and Mei Feng as well.Odin: ah makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElementalEther Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 ElementalEther: quite a varied crowed actually but Jakob, Viks, Perdita, gremlins. Did it against McCabe and Mei Feng as well.Odin: ah makes sense! Ah well that could explain some of our thought differences, a lot of my games have been against Pandora and Resers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yeah i suppose so never faced Pandora actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Keep duet away from pandora until it is time to kill her if you have too. When you move in on her cresendo is your friend (doesn't target no wp/wp duel) but duet doesn't want to fall back so avoid it if you can (18" towards closest edge mental anguish should not be a trigger for all her spells). Doves are great due to df 15 duel or take damage cause of her defense 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Maximum Corephyee movement - My apporoach. Cassandra, 2 corephyee, Performer and Manniquinn. 1 dove. (Doves can be used to get things further if you want) Cassandra moves out 6" before the first turn. Manniquin links to corephyee one. (If you can make the corephyee immune to weak damage it is a bonus). Performer performes defensive stance and walks forward towards Cassandra. Colette swaps Corephyee 2 with Cassandra and gains re-activate Corephyee 1 gets sword dance and use soulstone (as long as you have a decent mask in hand, otherwise add Masks to Ca and Cb). Walks forward, hits performer with its sword dance and activates trigger to push futher forward. ends up 18". If you have a second dove you could fly it forward before this and trigger a second push off the the second walk to get 22"). Manniquin pushes into base contact Dove Magicians duels the performer to death. Gain a soulstone. Give Corephyee 2 reactivate. (Can use Colettes reactivation here to switch her with the manniquin. Can Also use Cassandra to dance partner up at this point if you want the whole crew advanced about 18") Corephyee 2 activates. Gains +2 wp and the other 0 action you didn't get from Corephyee 1. Dances up to the 1st and dances together. you get the fast action point. walk 9" and hit an enemy model during that walk to get the 4"push. Manniquin pushes into base contact Duet is up to 35" from your deployment zone and able to activate a second time with 3 AP. It has wp8, df 7 with positive flips and use soulstone. It has masks added to Cb and Ca. It is hopefully immune to weak damage. It can make a healing flip on its second activation (as none of the other 0 actions are of use) if required. Every time it walks on the re-activate it gets to make a melee attack which will trigger an extra 4" push if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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