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Understanding Dark Debts Crew Selection?


D-A-C

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A. Huggy blocks line of sight on Jacob.

Spirits do not block line of sight...

I, too, am struggling a bit on how to get Lynch into the fray a bit more. Had everyone hiding in the shadow of a building, VonSchill came down to take a pot shot at one of them, they lured him in and took their shots at him. Got DMH to go off twice, but didn't give me too great of cards. Dropped VonSchill's AP by two with my Beckoner. Being it was a campaign and we were calling it at end of turn, though, I rushed my Depeleted up to lay claim to a second artifact.

Edited by i_was_like_you
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As a side note I still don't really know how to use Illuminated. They seem like a very weak 6ss investment. Does anyone have tips for them?

At best I use them to walk with Huggy and take a wound from him as necessary and then regenerate.

As you say, first turn "pinging" is one use, but not ofc enough to justify 6ss. And any turn after the first or possibly second, you're going to be pinging enemy models instead.

What I find is that they hurt alot when they land a hit, and they charge pretty far, and as a third bonus they are fairly resilient with Df5 and Armor+1. So I tend to use them in two ways. One is to throw them ahead of everything, making the opponent spend his activations beating on the Illuminated while I set up my crew for the next turn or next few activations. Or I hold them back a bit and use them as a countercharge.

The ability (0) Brillshaper is something I really like, and one thing that can really make a difference when planning ahead. As it lasts until the next activation, it's not a bad idea to make him terrifying if you throw him ahead of your crew. Terrifying->13 if the opponent isn't brilliant is pretty nice on a 6ss model. But if you're countercharging or already in melee, that :+fate or :+fate:+fate to dmg is what makes sure you kill things.

So I think they definately have uses. But I rarely take more than 1.

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Jakob's primary job is to stay alive and stack the deck for the rest of his crew. With Card Trick he can be quick, so if the opposing crew is ignoring him, use him to grab some objectives if needed. The Source is also a good, early-game buff for his crew. Dead Man's Hand, of course, is something that I find is usually worth the cast, especially if the opponent has something with a phenomenally low Ca. Even if you just discard cards, you've milled some bad ones out of your deck. Also, it can be cast on enemy models in combat, so the best way to do it is from far away and while someone is busy with a Hungry, Hungry Darkness (or Depleted, Beckoner, etc.)

Like i_was_like_you said, Huggy is a spirit, so enemy shooters and chargers draw line of sight through him. But if someone does charge into Huggy's Bubble o' DoomTM to attack Jakob, he can usually Squeel! out when coupled with Cheatin' Bastard (or just defend and push out with Quick Retreat), which leaves the poor sod in line for a full activation of Huggy's Tentacle Lovin'TM. Also, Malifaux Roulette is usually too fun to pass up.

But in all seriousness, Jakob's most important job is staying alive. If you've managed to do that and can consistently do it, anything else you can wrangle out of him is gravy.

Illuminated are pretty much designed to deal immense amounts of damage. Their melee attack has the same track and trigger as the Young Nephilim with an extra inch of range and one less Cb. They can Brillshape themselves a :+fate to damage or a :+fate:+fate against Brilliant models.

They can also apply brilliance to models before Beckoners or Huggy activate, because both reap benefits from models that are already Brilliant (Know My Client, ignoring ItI with Heed My Voice, etc.), thereby saving them AP. Again, the Illuminated can improve their own performance by Brillshaping to automatically hit the Filled With Stars trigger, potentially making even more models Brilliant.

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simply agreeing with the above. Lynch's job is to survive - thereby keeping huggy about. If he does that and nothing else, then its fine by me.

Getting him involved with a fight means tagging a bodyguard to him - one with ranged capability for preference to compliement his own gun. Graves can be good for this due to the larger base size and Ht3 - and he's the fluffy choice for it too.

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simply agreeing with the above. Lynch's job is to survive - thereby keeping huggy about. If he does that and nothing else, then its fine by me.

Getting him involved with a fight means tagging a bodyguard to him - one with ranged capability for preference to compliement his own gun. Graves can be good for this due to the larger base size and Ht3 - and he's the fluffy choice for it too.

Wouldnt Graves be busy laying down the hurt with huggy?

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Huggy doesn't need support like that - he's best being pushed down the opponent's throat. Having a yamiziko or a brutal effigy back him up with a healing flip - or sue/desperate merc back him up by being reactivate targets is all he needs - if he dies he'll be coming back if you are using lynch properly.

fluffwise, Mr.Graves (sir) is keeping an eye on Lynch when Huggy can't - and is jailor/bodyguard for him.

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Jacob is fast w. Card Trick - move, shoot/DMH, move into cover. I've planned on trying an Arcane Effigy, for the extra AP and card (haven't got the foggiest idea how I would fit in in 35ss, but I'll think of something).

And yeah, DMH's and Lynch's point is to bring HD back from beyond. That's what gives to opportunity to play aggressively.

I've planned on the following list: Jacob, HD out, 2 x beckoners, 2 x Depleted, Arcane Effigy, Desperate Merc, Graves.

And replace Effigy and Merc w. Illuminated if need be. Also Kade could work in certain Schemes.

I had my first match w. Lynch's and even though we had to quit our match mid-game, I got some ideas how to play him.

1. I2I is just awful... An Izamu in the middle of the battle is just horrible. Huggy though made him kill his own crew with Heed My Voice, so that was cool.

2. Arcane Effigy will help vs. crews with magics, Brutal vs. shootings. In theory. Any experiences?

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So I just learned something cooler about the Illuminated... Filled with Stars goes off even if you miss as it is worded after you resolve the hit, so as long as Brillshaper goes off you can lay down 2 50mm clouds of Brillance within 8 inches every turn. Even if you miss. Also after trying her out tonight Candy > Graves. The healing flip and her survivabilty is very useful to Lynch's crew.

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Admittingly I am pretty new to this game but if I read the rules right resolving a hit is declaring a strike, dueling to see if it does damage or misses, and then resolving any triggers from a miss or a hit. Is that not resolving a hit?

Because I have seen many other triggers that specifically require you to "successfully hit" or "after hitting" see Leveticus's The Face of Death, Coppileus's weapon triggers, and Leju's Thirst. I will put it in the rules forum and see what they say.

Edited by Cer0
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Hi guys, I was just curious what you think of the following idea.

Instead of running x2 Beckoners run 1 + 1 Oiran and have them work in tandem?

1. Basically, the Oiran's zero action adds +1 to the Beckoners Wp essientally making her CB7 for Spreading Brilliance.

2. They have a lure ability as well.

3. They need to get close to models to do damage so can pair with a Beckoner, staying in close (hopefully) after luring them out of position in tandem with the Beckoner.

4. They walk the same (not much, still nice considering its a synergy pairing).

I can't think of much else atm lol.

Its just an idea to maybe save a potential SS as I've found in Lynch crews of 25-35ss accounting for each and every soulstone counts.

What do you guys think, I've never really used an Oiran before, as I said, it was just an idea I'd been contemplating cuz I like the models and because every opium den/casino needs a few ladies of negotiable affection lol.

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my 2 cents is that the extra SS for an almost unhittable Beckoner with "keep the party going" and Irrestible rather than harmless is worth it.

True.

Ive never used Oiran, I'm just trying to toy about with possible alternate selections for the crew.

I was also eying up Wastrels as I love the models as well and they could be a client at the Honeypot who hasn't taken kindly to all the ruckus being enacted by an opposing crew lol :)

Basically at 35ss

Jackob Lynch

Huggy (on Table Always)

x1 Illuminated - 6ss

x2 Depleted - 8ss

x1 Beckoner - 5ss

That is my base template every game regardless of scheme or strategy.

That leaves 16ss to try alternate models out.

1. A Wastrel or Oiran are 4ss options I've been looking at because of the models (I'd only use 1)

2. I love using Graves, but he isn't competitive for 7ss IMO

3. Mr Tannen sucks

4 A Ten Thunder Brother might be a good pickup (don't know much about them) but they look good and sound interesting based on their wiki.

I've basically thinking of running Jacob as a 10T most games as I really like the plastics over the metal models tbh ... unless someone knows a reason this wouldn't be competitive in tournaments and such? Therefore I'm just thinking of variou combinations of the plastic models available at the moment.

So ideas about that would be very welcome :) because I really love this crew and am thinking of making them my main unless/until other crews are converted to plastic.

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The TTbro will allow your a lot of your crew to form a companion chain - and the possibility of having an alpha strike is worthwhile. They are pretty good models in themselves too.

I am wondering why you think Mr.Graves (sir) isn't competative. He certainly does the job for me!

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The TTbro will allow your a lot of your crew to form a companion chain - and the possibility of having an alpha strike is worthwhile. They are pretty good models in themselves too.

I am wondering why you think Mr.Graves (sir) isn't competative. He certainly does the job for me!

Any ideas on 10 Thunders worth a look with Lynch crew and my base template I run that I mentioned in my last post?

The problems that I have with Graves are:

1. His Cost. Maybe its just me, but with Lynch, as i said, I really have to account for every SS and every time I pick him (particular when looking unline at crew creator) I usually watch in horror as a healthy 16ss spare to buy models disappears with Graves included and suddnly I'm really limited in choices.

Now obviously certain models are expensive, but when buying Izamu for Kirai, sure I spent 10ss, but I knew what I was getting and never seemed to worry in the same way I do with Graves.

I think honestly Graves is a 6ss model and Tannen a 5ss or perhaps 4ss model. At those prices, 10/11ss for both, you'd see alot more Lynch crews running, whilst not making them too auto-include, because essentially I feel like they should almost work together as a 10/11ss Duo

2. His Defence ... its not good enough. He just seems to die quickly in all the games I've run him. +1 Armour doesn't make up for 4DF against range and Black Blood doesn't make up for 4DF against melee.

Yes he has 9 Wds but he always seems to get chipped to death in the first few Turns and once he is down to half Wounds I find he is tricky to automatically throw into melee, which brings me to.

3. Flurry. I have yet to get this off. Again, maybe its me, but its really tricky to use as rarely are Beckoners in a position to lure things towards Mr Graves so that he doesnt need to move, at least ion the way I've been playing them. As a result he always has to move and thus bye bye Flurry.

And as I said, he isn't resilient enough to last 1 round against a dedicated melee beatstick to fire of Flurry next turn.

In conclusion, I absolutely love the model AND his rules. However it just never really adds up to SS worth of model when I use him. I use him alot, but when running competitive he tends to get dropped for more quantity models, because basically his costs is almost the same as x2 Depleted and they are much better at absorbing damage, getting into melee, giving Brilliance and usually exploding for 2 damage AND getting at least 1 hit for usually weak plus borning token damage whilst giving out Brilliance.

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In theory, D-A-C, I think you're on the correct tracks. But remember the main reason one uses Graves: movement control, especially "Bar's Closed". You can use that spell and still Flurry. :P Also, it moves everything around, saving your own models and/or moving the opponent's.

But yeah, Graves has the same problems as almost all the other Honeypotters: something is wrong/too pricy. I still like him and use him almost always.

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