Gunsmiths- I don't get it.

[jasonfly]

I'm finally going to apply some paint to my Kaeris box set. Kaeris and the gamins I get, but the gunsmiths confuse me. They seem to be decent at getting somewhere to pop a shot off, but their damage seems a little lackluster, especially compared to some of the basic shooting my guild opponents seem to have access to. Leadstorm seems awesome, but very very situational, and more as a threat/denial ability.

His experimental trigger looks nice, but can arcanists really sacrifice a tome for his shots? I don't want to seem like i'm envious of the shooters in other factions, I'm just curious as to how people run them/with what aim. The models are awesome, so I'll be bringing them regardless.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

[96p]

actually with many Crews you don't really need the tomes (Ramos and Kaeris for example)

[Joel]

+++ on attack flips and a customisable + damage flip, with a possible higher damage track on a trigger - or armour piercing, on a ruthless model.

Looks plenty Killy to me! I've had them take down gribblies like the rogue necromancy in a single activation, and shred collodi's puppets with leadstorm. I view gunsmiths as solid models with plenty of flexibility on the tabletop.

What makes me happier, as a mostly neverborn player, is that zoraida can hire them

[jasonfly]

Fair point on the fact that 'the hard way' is awesome, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the best way to get a wound on him, other than Kaeris' 'resource management'. They seem good as finishers, but I don't really see moderate/severe damage come up too often, so maybe I'm just doing something wrong.

[Ozz]

I think it is simply the hard to kill, custom ammunition, and the experimental trigger.

As you say you don't want to waste a tome on them for the damage, but when they are wounded (from Kaeris' 0 action) they flip 4 cards to hit, which means it is rare you will bother to cheat on the attack, so they save you a card there, and as you flip so many cards you have a good chance of getting a tome, which just means do you want the solid hit or the potential for extra damage if your opponent does not waste a card. They are just generally effective

And as for comparing to the ranged damage output from guild. Dont Nothing beats their damage output as so much has crit strike with a built in Ram, but for the most part they do not have a lot to keep them standing if you hit them which is why they have to put everyone down fast

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

Also they have gunfighter and so can fight just as well in combat

[Joel]

when they are targetted with an action they can use smoldering heart to take a wound to gian +3Wp usually, this is how I get my wound onto them to allow them access to "the hard way"

[CannonFodder]

if you are not using them with Kaeris, try using them with a Rail worker. Turn 1 giving them a burning token is a really easy way of giving them 1 dmg.

While then don't synergies with other masters well, I find they fill a hole that arcanists had in range models. With 5 wlk he is fairly fast in relation to other Arcanist models. Excelent in doing some solo hunting on models that are hiding for objectives.

[Cadilon]

And don't underestimate Paired, either. Joel inferred it, but its a huge bonus even without The Hard Way, especially around heavy terrain.

I'd happily trade Guild's crit strike with Paired's better chance to hit.

[Gorbad]

While his damage might not be enough to put down everything in one hit/activation I'm finding it a real boon to have a model that can reliably hit(without require resources the rest of the crew wants) at quite a decent range without having to put himself in the middle of the enemy crew. It adds another dynamic and it's quite valuable to have self-sufficient models that then in turn let you focus resources on other tasks.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Also don't forget your opponent can't obey it

[CRC]

Ramos can wound them with careful Electrical Creation placement, but as Joel said, Smoldering Heart is a great way to put a wound on them. If you're opponent isn't targeting them with something, do it yourself. They end up with a Wp of 7, so it's pretty easy to make whatever you were doing miss.

[Joel]

I used a pair of gunsmiths tonight with Kaeris. They both died, but lit dynamite, took 8 wounds off ladyJ (one leadstorm and one experimental ammo hit for moderate) and killed a death Marshall. Got great returns from them, as always.

[sssk]

Kaeris's resource management is a good way to get the wound off them.

I find their most useful thing is that you don't need good cards in your hand to use them. When you're flipping 4 cards and choosing the highest, you're usually going to have a hit at least. The experimental ammo is amazing against neverborn, and alright against most other stuff. They're also one of very few arcanist ranged units, which makes them invaluable. They're fast (as in wk5, not "fast" the ability).

The only drawback I find is that with a low defense, they're pretty squishy. Even so though, hard to kill makes up for that to an extent.

Oh, what's that? Your opponent has charged them to get rid of your ranged unit in melee? Well just use gunfighter and shoot them right in the middle of the face at point blank range... twice.

[studderingdave]

Lady Z certainly finds a use for them, and I like to take 2 in some of my gun heavy lists.

[Joel]

against hamelin they are terrifying to his crew, and can cause blast damage too with explosive ammo. leadstorm is also rather nice if you ever get position.

[marful]

I find their most useful thing is that you don't need good cards in your hand to use them. When you're flipping 4 cards and choosing the highest, you're usually going to have a hit at least. The experimental ammo is amazing against neverborn, and alright against most other stuff. They're also one of very few arcanist ranged units, which makes them invaluable. They're fast (as in wk5, not "fast" the ability).

The only drawback I find is that with a low defense, they're pretty squishy. Even so though, hard to kill makes up for that to an extent.

Oh, what's that? Your opponent has charged them to get rid of your ranged unit in melee? Well just use gunfighter and shoot them right in the middle of the face at point blank range... twice.

I want to emphasize the part in bold.

When I play Kaeris, there is always at least one Gunsmith, usually 2, in my crew.

The fact that a model needs to win a WP->13 simple duel just to target them (from ranged/spells) makes them decently survivable early game, turn 1-2 where they get in position.

I try to always activate the Gunsmiths before Kaeris, where they use the Hard Way and target models that the opponent doesn't want to die. Unless the model has a high DF, with +3 Flip on the attack, I will be winning the duel. The opponent has to decide whether or not to cheat in High Cards, which is what I REALLY REALLY want them to do =)

That's when I use Kaeris, cheat in a high card and/or burn a stone and so that I can guarantee kills with Immolate.

In other words, I use them to force the opponent to lose models or burn their control hand to keep a model alive, running the opponent out of their control hand. Because they don't need me to play any cards from my hand to operate, I can hold all my high cards for Kaeris or the Rail Golem.

On another note, I have never ever used Leadstorm. If they are in range to use it, they are already engaged in Melee, and as the spell is a ranged spell with the gun icon, it can't be used if the model is engaged, making leadstorm very very very situational.

[Joel]

situational, but effective.

leadstorm can smash through ice pillars, for example, and it allows a couple of in-position gunsmiths to overlap fields of fire by being 6.5 inches apart.

As the pulse doesn't target, it can get past things like pandora's wp>wp duel protection if she is within the 6" range.

collodi and his dolls hate it.

I've not used it too often, but its another great tool in the toolbox for the gunsmith - and that's what this model is all about.

[marful]

situational, but effective.

leadstorm can smash through ice pillars, for example, and it allows a couple of in-position gunsmiths to overlap fields of fire by being 6.5 inches apart.

As the pulse doesn't target, it can get past things like pandora's wp>wp duel protection if she is within the 6" range.

collodi and his dolls hate it.

I've not used it too often, but its another great tool in the toolbox for the gunsmith - and that's what this model is all about.

Thanks for the reply!

Gave me quite a bit of ideas on how to use Gunsmiths better!

[GTDemon777]

these great things being said, careful of crews that can easily and especially quickly lock onto your smithies in an instant (like, Kirai crews). Fast models can easily abuse their def 4, so positioning is very important

[Usiel]

I really like them with my Rasputina crews as well -- put them with a silent one, you can give them frozen heart to give +3" rg. At 13" they're outranging a lot. Plus, if you want to activate The Hard Way, it's easy to just pulse for damage. But I don't always wound my gunsmiths myself; they work pretty well base.

[Tograth]

situational, but effective.

leadstorm can smash through ice pillars, for example, and it allows a couple of in-position gunsmiths to overlap fields of fire by being 6.5 inches apart.

As the pulse doesn't target, it can get past things like pandora's wp>wp duel protection if she is within the 6" range.

collodi and his dolls hate it.

I've not used it too often, but its another great tool in the toolbox for the gunsmith - and that's what this model is all about.

Unfortunately, as lead storm is a pulse it won't do anything to ice pillars.

[Joel]

Why not? Breakable terrain rules don't suggest otherwise....what did I miss??

[geistwald]

Why not? Breakable terrain rules don't suggest otherwise....what did I miss??

Breakable terrain rules don't, but Pulse rules do: "it simultaneously affects all models". Ice Pillars aren't models.

[Joel]

Breakable terrain rules don't, but Pulse rules do: "it simultaneously affects all models". Ice Pillars aren't models.

I think you're stretching with that interpretation. Breakable terrain can be hit by attacks of any kind. This particular pulse has the gun symbol, further indicating its a ranged attack.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Joel

[Arkion]

For the OP: Gunsmiths look lackluster when you compare them to stuff like Death Marshals and the Ortegas. Just remember they're the best gunslingers the Arcanists can usually hire. If you're not liking the Arcanist's punch, I might recommend Mei Feng - I've been playing her recently, and her damage output is comparable to the Ortega crew I run. It's not quite the same as getting positive twists on Perdita's Peacebringer damage, but what is?