Viktoria crew questions

[jasonfly]

To frame my question, I'm trying to paint up my crews so I can finally put some painted minis on the table and am trying to finalise a crew. Here's what I've come up with?

Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap

Viktoria -- 5 Pool

Student of Conflict [3ss]

Convict Gunslinger [5ss]

Freikorps Librarian [7ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Fairly standard as far as I can tell, but I like the look of it so far. My only concern is the lack of too much ranged capacity. I was contemplating substituting a ronin and 1ss for a trapper, but am not sold on that.

Can wiser and more experienced heads than mine please give me an idea of some interactions/tactics in the above list? Additionally, what would you say to swapping the student for a desperate mercenary and another soulstone?

Thanks!

[Sheijtan]

I do not see a need for a single desperate mercenary other than having him for placing Killjoy on the table.

I think the list has quite a good ranged potential with five models shooting.

But, yes: There is little synergy in there, except for the student giving fast to the viks and later the gunslinger.

I would recommend to have two Ronin and the Gunslinger as one half of the crew and the viks, a ronin and the librarian as the other.

[jasonfly]

Personally, I've found desperate mercs to be a great 'fire and forget' mini, with for my family and uncontrolled fire. I was thinking to maybe put a freikorps specialist in instead of a ronin, just to give me some more fun.

What do you think?

[Sheijtan]

I just recently bought a Desperate Mercenary to bring in Killjoy. But haven't paid any separate attention to using him as a "fire and forget" model. Maybe it is a way to give the viks a healing flip, when he dies.

Also, I don't have a specialist, but I assume, it depends on the enemy you are facing. If his blasts are usefull: Definitely.

Also, don't forget to make your crews according to the schemes and enemy you are facing.

[jasonfly]

Very good point with building the crew based on a scheme. Coming from other game systems, that's something I need to keep in mind.

However, I was hoping to use this as a 'generalist' list, so I can learn the ins and outs of how these guys interact on the table.

With regards to Killjoy, I'm not a fan of the mini, so I'd rather avoid him if at all possible. He does seem awesome rules-wise though

[Drool_bucket]

Ronin are great with the Viks, but I have found myself moving away from taking three. They aren't particularly fast (4/6) unless you are utilizing Mobile to get over terrain features or getting their trigger off after an attack, something you can't always count on. Add in they aren't the toughest thing out there with only Hard to Kill as a defensive measure (yes, Harmless and expert defense, never seem to matter much)

Instead I've found myself using a Friekorpsmen. He is faster overall with the 5/7, one SS cheaper and with his armor a tad tougher. Now, mind you, he gets used as and objective grabber/someone to survive... Ronin are for attacking.

I am not a fan of the Student of Conflict... he just gets left behind IMO. Plus, with Vanessa right around the corner I wouldn't get used to being able to take him.

For a while I used two Desp Mercs as described above, two models that rushed forward and either turn two or three Used "For My Family" and "Uncontrolled Fire" to put a dent in something all the while burning my activations. It was a bonus if they managed to take a WD or two prior to unloading. But I've moved away a bit from that idea and am trying fewer, more elite models with the Viks.

Finally, at 35 SS, I would say that a 5 SS pool is the absolute smallest you can get away with. Viks need Stones for hitting and getting hit, they really need them.

If I was going to make a single change to your list right now I would drop the SoC and upgrade a Ronin to (the rumored to be released soon) Vanessa. Save you a SS overall for the cache, too.

[JSKrush]

On the Desperate Merc thoughts, I take at least one with my Viktoria crew's usually for a few reasons.

1) It's a cheap model which can help out since you're usually low on Soulstones already and the other models you tend to take a more expensive. Having that extra model or two can really help with keeping up with or even out activating your opponent to really let a Vik come in at the last moment and do some real damage without chance of reprisal.

2) Vik's tend to die easy because of the low number of wounds each has. Just a blast or two can really ruin their day. The healing flip is so good mid-game to heal a Vik or a Ronin who are the essential parts of the crew.

3) They are very fire-and-forget as pointed out earlier. Just send them in and if they die after handing out a few wounds you really wont care. I've never invested in playing Soulstones during the game to keep them on the table because they've always served their purpose engaging or shooting and died providing a healing flip or where sacrificed from for my family.

4) They make exceptional Whirlwind targets when you are needing to get another swing or two against a larger model. Charge them in, do a little damage, then Sister in Spirit and/or charge a sword Vik in. You can use him as a target for a whirlwind trigger if you're out of other targets, get the healing flip, and then hit the enemy model again.

I've tried the Student of Conflict and while its a good match with a lot of models in the crew, I find it's only useful about every other turn because of how far it gets left behind sometimes after that turn of giving out Fast. (I tend to go for an alpha strike) If he can give out Fast every turn then it tends to be the enemy came to you, you're playing defensively, and I personally don't feel that's really the best way to engage with Vik crews.

I usually tend to only run one or two Ronin. And while the Convict Gunslinger is good, the way I've tended to play, I've come to find that for the same cost of a Ronin and the Convict, I'd rather fit in VonShill. He adds range, some support aspects, and quick objective grabbing to the crew while the Viks threaten stuff.

Maybe personal preference here, but I also never run the Viks/VonShill with less than 6 stones. (And even more sometimes) With how important they are all to get things done, I'll spend the Soulstones freely when trying to avoid getting hit on the Viks, slow to dies for VonShill, and definitely using them to increase attack duels to make sure I get good damage spreads on what I'm going after at the time.

[jasonfly]

Jkrush: I kind of agree with your sentiments regarding the student of conflict. To be honest, I think swapping him for a desperate merc will do my list good. On a plus note, it nabs me an extra SS.

Dropping a ronin and the convict (as much as that would pain me, I like his paintjob) could nab me a further SS and Von Schill. That might just be the thing I need.

How does all that sound?

[Claymore65]

I'm personally a fan of bringing in Von Schill, and he has always done me well. My "generalist" build utilizes him. I modify the build depending on scheme/opponent, usually putting in either a Freikorps trapper or (more likely) a specialist. Here's my "generalist" build, though keep in mind I switch them up a lot and rely on my Freikorps a lot.

Viktoria: 6 SS

Von Schill

Freikorps Librarian

Ronin

Freikorpsmann

Freikorpsmann

I often take two Freikorpsmann to help with activation advantage, as I like to activate my Vikkies later in the turn if possible/reasonable. They are also relatively fast and decent in melee, and the slow to die with Von Schill helps in some cases. This build also ensures I have 6 SS, though sometimes I do some modification as both Von Schill and the Viks like SS sometimes (Von Schill less so, but Slow to Die plus a Soulstone heal is just too good). I don't personally own the Convict Gunslinger, but I've only heard great things about him and his card/model are great, so don't get rid of him if you don't want to. I might get rid of the totem though, as I tend to overpass it quickly. You can always take the exact same list and simply take 8 SS, meaning the Viks might be more survivable. Either way, figure out what you like playing the best.

[Tharen]

Von Schill is awesome! He does it all. He is a great objective grabber, has a great gun, is great against undead, and is ridiculously hard to kill with use soulstones and slow to die. He is a badass. Take grampa chuck all day long.

[jasonfly]

Well, the general consensus seems to say Von Schill should be in, which I fully agree with to be honest (almost always a star in my games...or the guy who flips a black joker every turn -.-).

Claymore: Your general list looks very solid to me, I think I'll have to playtest it and see if it works for me, naturally with one or two alterations of my own

I think keeping one ronin around is a must though, just because they're damn handy and can always scare the enemy (no one wants to see another vik)

[Claymore65]

Yeah, I like to keep at least one Ronin in there. The ability to ignore armor is always handy, and I'll sometimes put more and a Freikorps Specialist should I be facing Hoffman. If you don't want to put in Von Schill, you don't have to. The other model to consider eventually would be Vanessa. I don't own Storm of Shadows, but she sounds awesome, with the ability to buff the defenses of the Viks and count as another target for Sister's in Spirit. She might be a great replacement for Von Schill. In addition, if you fear you will be extremely out-activated, which is never fun, you can get rid of Von Schill and take two mroe units, like a convict gunslinger/Ronin and a Freikorpsmann to compensate. Like I said, there is a lot of ways to vary it, and I haven't even mentioned taking single mercenaries like Taelor or Johan.

[ravenborne]

The student seems to be best when you have another model that can gain fast after the viks are off and running. Having a trapper or Von Schill in the list to gain fast for the rest of the game makes him worth it for me.

[Inquisitor Wall]

I tried for a long time to avoid taking Von Schill in my viks list, but once I added him I have never looked back. He basically gives your opponent 3 masters to focus on and he provides more resilience than the viks on their own. Other than that I would go with fewer ronin and a full cashe of SS so if you need to, you can summon one.

[PokiePrawn]

I have a Sue who I have tried several times to get into a game, but it is soo hard because it means no Von Shill. There is just almost no reason to not take him with the Vics. He is the perfect yin to thier yang. He does pretty much everything except hard hitting melee combat, and that is what the Vics do!

My typical list at 35 is Vics, Von Shill, Taylor, student, Ronin and Frei Specialist. With only 7 models being out activated can be a problem. Overall it has done very well for me.

[Drool_bucket]

My typical list at 35 is Vics, Von Shill, Taylor, student, Ronin and Frei Specialist. With only 7 models being out activated can be a problem. Overall it has done very well for me.

If you are concerned about being out activated then take a Desp Merc or two. I have used them pretty successfully... most people don't even realize they have the For the Family and Uncontrolled Fire combination that can actual put a hurt on many minions... and by the time they are dying off the Viks should have been able to cut down the enemy crew's numbers!

RE: Von Schill - I try no to use him too often because he is that good. It become really easy to achieve S&S with him and the Viks... it kinda puts Malifaux into easy mode! (Kinda like Zoriada and Collidi) Instead I try and challenge myself a bit and not take The Schill.

RE: Sue - oh how I want to love and use him. I have tried the Librarian Heal after Sue Hurts by honestly, I just don't think it's that amazing. He just needed that one extra AP of some kind to be useful, but he's just slow and while he can shoot a bit, he's no Convict Gunslinger and is more expensive. And while he has his place to help out the WP of a crew, Schill does that so much better!

[Therril_83]

And while he has his place to help out the WP of a crew, Schill does that so much better!

You do realize Schill only buffs Wp for Morale Duels, right? Sue buffs Wp with no conditions.

I still agree he's a tad expensive and needs an extra AP, but there are uses for Sue.

[Drool_bucket]

You do realize Schill only buffs Wp for Morale Duels, right? Sue buffs Wp with no conditions.

I still agree he's a tad expensive and needs an extra AP, but there are uses for Sue.

Right, I was coming from that angle, sorry. Yes, Sue's buff can be useful in certain situations... but defending Terrifying was what I was getting at!

[Ausplosions]

Which sue also helps with as it uses Wp....

[PokiePrawn]

His shrug off and duty abilities seem pretty useful against big Z or poison crews. His ring of fire could be good if he had more AP... his gun is good, but I think he probably has better uses than to just shoot.

The problem I find is the vics don't really bunch up, and tend to spread out as each model is sort of able to fend for themselves, limiting his use. I am going to try hard to get him into a game and have a more informed opinion.

[RebeccaJo]

I am a Viks exclusive player, and have been for over a year now. My "general list" of 35ss that I try to make sure I have with me when go play includes:

Viks: 6ss cache

Viktoria

Taelor (8ss)

Sue or Misaki (depending on who I was going up against) (7ss)

Ronin (5ss)

Ronin (5ss)

Desperate Merc (2ss)

Desperate Merc (2ss)

I like to keep strict mercs only lists. I own Von Schill's box, but personally I only like to run him as a henchman-master. I like the synergy that is all mercs. I also am team Sue. I wish there were more times I could take him. Most of the time, I prefer to take Sue and keep the extra soul stones since he does buff WP. I mainly use him for his ring of fire, especially during claim jump or any position holding scheme/strat.

EDIT: and Sue gives me an excuse to sing Johnny Cash obnoxiously to Jeremy while he's losing (jk... sometimes)

Edited February 20, 2013 by RebeccaJo

[Seregon]

I would personally love to see a +1 Nimble on Sue so he could actually use his buffs a bit more (or if most of them were (0)-actions), but even as he is I usually tend to take him since I love the model and theme.

[IDislexiaHave]

I believe if taking the viks with von schill at 35 you need to have 8 soul stones. With the viks offensive cababilities and Von schills defensive capabilities you need to have the soulstones to be effective as sword vik and von schill can burn through soul stones really quickly.

I would recomend:

Viks - 8ss

Student of Conflict - 3ss

Von Schill - 9ss

Ronin - 5ss

Ronin - 5ss

Convict Gunslinger - 5ss or Another Ronin - 5ss

I love ronin with viks because plain and simple because they are awesome. One of the best 5 ss models in the game if not the best 5 ss model. They have amazing offensive and defensive capabilites as well as hard to kill, harmless, and the option to sacrifice themselves for 2 soulstones which can come in handy in key critical situations as you have 3 models on the board that can use soulstones. Another option is to drop either 2 ronin or a ronin and a convict for:

Taelor - 8ss

Desperate Merc - 2ss

I would use this combo for the added hitting power and dominance on the field while keeping the same amount of activations.

[Serigala]

4) They make exceptional Whirlwind targets when you are needing to get another swing or two against a larger model. Charge them in, do a little damage, then Sister in Spirit and/or charge a sword Vik in. You can use him as a target for a whirlwind trigger if you're out of other targets, get the healing flip, and then hit the enemy model again.

I think the Whirlwind trigger specifies enemy models.

I've tried the Student of Conflict and while its a good match with a lot of models in the crew, I find it's only useful about every other turn because of how far it gets left behind sometimes after that turn of giving out Fast. (I tend to go for an alpha strike) If he can give out Fast every turn then it tends to be the enemy came to you, you're playing defensively, and I personally don't feel that's really the best way to engage with Vik crews.

I sometimes keep 1 Vik in the backfield with the Librarian and the Student of Conflict, swapping 1 Vik out of melee each turn, to receive Fast and get the healing for the both of them.

Don't forget, if you give Fast after a model has activated, it carries into the next turn, so it is possible to get 2 Fast Viks in the all important charge turn.

The student seems to be best when you have another model that can gain fast after the viks are off and running. Having a trapper or Von Schill in the list to gain fast for the rest of the game makes him worth it for me.

As the rest of my models spend most of their time in melee, I tend to find that ranged models often have nothing to shoot at. Better the Gunslinger with Gunfighter, or Desperate Mercs, for support in the turn 2 or 3 charge. You can also throw in the SS on turn 4 to keep the model for objectives.

[Grim]

Would you keep Von Schill if you take Vanessa?