scared of malifaux 2.0

[i_was_like_you]

Why are you comparing Irresistible and Terrifying? Irresistible is a defensive ability, and a powerful one because it cannot be ignored. Terrifying is an offensive ability, and a powerful one because it causes models to fall back.

The true comparisons, if we must compare defense to offense, are Irresistible to Anathema and Harmless to Terrifying. They are different categories of the same type of ability.

Is Irresistible powerful? Yes. That's the intention. In itself it is not too powerful (Anathema is substantially more powerful). The key is making sure it's on models that are appropriately costed.

They both come into play on the defense, when a model tries to target them. Terrifying is a bit more pervasive, in that it kicks in if the Terrifying model just happens to be near other models when they activate. But only having to pass that test once offsets that. To try to shoot, stab, ensorcel, or otherwise attack a smexy model, we've gotta waste card after card from our decks or control hands. It's a bit of overkill. The negative flip from Southern Charm isn't even that bad, by comparison, as we can just focus or channel to get around it.

Anathema is an upgraded version of Terrifying, period.

Harmless, except for the models that can regain it, is only a temporary save. Even then, it forces those models to waste actions or strive for triggers to reinstate their harmless.

i_ was_like_you the problem with what you posted about irresistable is that it would further continue the non living crew composition we have had become dominant from around book 2 on. I honestly don't feel irressistable is too bad granted it would be annoying on masters all the time and such but there really aren't that many models that have it (off the top of my head performers, liluto, nekima, azoraida and I believe that's it).

So far. The next book could have another crew of purdy ladies, and each and everyone of them might have Irresistible.

[amor sanguinis]

Zorada pees on irresistible

[dgraz]

They both come into play on the defense, when a model tries to target them. Terrifying is a bit more pervasive, in that it kicks in if the Terrifying model just happens to be near other models when they activate. But only having to pass that test once offsets that.

I agree with Lucidicide........you can't compare the two. Terrifying is vastly different than Irresistible.

First, you can choose to not take the Irresistible test by not attacking that model....not so with Terror, it can be forced on you whether you like it or not.

Second, the worst thing that happens with Irresistible is that you burn a card......if you fail against Terror, you fall back....spend the next round doing nothing (while rallying)...and suffer a to almost all duels.

You say you only have to pass that test once........but I think you're forgetting that that's only while you're within that model's range....if you move apart for any reason you have to re-test if you close again.

As you said, Anathema is upgraded Terror....well Irresistible is upgraded Harmless. Harmless can be ignored by some, and Terror can be ignored by some. No one ignores Anathema or Irresistible. And, as someone else said, there aren't many of them around.

So far. The next book could have another crew of purdy ladies, and each and everyone of them might have Irresistible.

Let's not borrow trouble. Worry about what we have now........not what may happen in a parallel universe.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Zorada pees on irresistible

I really need to supervise y'alls games more.

Slight tangent on Harmless:

It could stand to be less fragile. A Mannequin has it, but only as long as it takes to use (0) Link and lose it.

[dgraz]

It could stand to be less fragile. A Mannequin has it, but only as long as it takes to use (0) Link and lose it.

Agreed. There are a lot of seemingly silly things that make it go away.

[i_was_like_you]

Slight tangent on Harmless:

It could stand to be less fragile. A Mannequin has it, but only as long as it takes to use (0) Link and lose it.

Exactly. Link could / should be at least one (0) that has the rider clause of does not cause Harmless to end, at least on the Mannequin.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Personally, I'd go one step further and say that Harmless is regained whenever a model ends their activation out of LOS to any enemy model.

[i_was_like_you]

Personally, I'd go one step further and say that Harmless is regained whenever a model ends their activation out of LOS to any enemy model.

Peekaboo?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Peekaboo?

More like the Wastrel's secret door.

"Alright, I'm going to do a trick, but everyone has to close their eyes, cover their ears, and turn around."

[i_was_like_you]

Speaking of Wastrels, it's a good thing that they, and a lot of new models with low WP have built in Animosity Zoraida.

Should we up its WP so no one exploits it with Zoraida? Nah, just give it Animosity to her.

[Kadeton]

For simplicity, I would make Harmless end when the model makes any form of attack.

[i_was_like_you]

For simplicity, I would make Harmless end when the model makes any form of attack.

That might work, but some buffs that harmless models give are scarier than any attacks they could make. I ain't a scared o' no bop from a Mannequin.

[Sybaris]

At the risk of not being at all connected to the current discussion; I am not worried one bit about another edition of Malifaux. There's a -lot- of rules that are either worded badly or require errata or forum ruling in order to understand....besides, Nekima can't possibly get worse than she is right now

[Fetid Strumpet]

She could be Molly.

[i_was_like_you]

I'd still prefer Flurry just allowed for a model to lash out at up to three models within arm's reach. Same with Rapid Fire to just spray and pray. But nope. Only Furious Casting allows for 3 Ap specifically for one type of action without having to even target the same thing.

[dgraz]

I'd still prefer Flurry just allowed for a model to lash out at up to three models within arm's reach. Same with Rapid Fire to just spray and pray. But nope. Only Furious Casting allows for 3 Ap specifically for one type of action without having to even target the same thing.

It's called balance. How many models have Furious Casting? 3 or 4? and what kind of spells can they cast with them? Myranda...no damage, Lawyer....no damage (buff/debuff/ morale duel), Librarian....no damage (buff/debuff/healing).

Compare that to models with Rapid Fire - Sam Hopkins....possible 5/6/7 damage with Ricochet, Pale Rider, Santiago.

Or for the really fun one...Flurry. It would be one of the most broken abilities in the game if you could hit multiple foes with it. Models like Teddy, Graves, the Riders, Snow Storm, Francisco, Judge.........all models with 2" reach, high CBs and damage tracks around 2/4/6 and 3/5/7. Then how about the super fun ones like the Steamborg Executioner....with Decapitate! Or Coppelius, a model the Dreamer can place anywhere into combat and give Flurry to with an auto Paralyze trigger..have fun with that.

How can you compare Furious Casting to that? It's about as apt as your Terrifying vs Irresistible comparison.

[i_was_like_you]

Flurry and Rapid Fire just seems to be wasted on those very same models. They tend to have such high damage lines or insta-kill triggers that the rest of their activation is just wasted. Forcing them to spend their AP to thrash or shoot everything around them, still prevents them from moving anywhere.

The Librarian's Healing is quite devastating to an opponent, as models that were on the brink of death one moment, are now back to fighting strength, especially any with Hard to Kill.

[Forar]

The Librarian's Healing is quite devastating to an opponent, as models that were on the brink of death one moment, are now back to fighting strength, especially any with Hard to Kill.

Amen to that. Nino riddled Von Schill with bullets in one of my last matches. Twice. Only for a backline Librarian to pitch a card and bump him back up 6+ wounds. Between armour, slow to die healing flips and her, he was a tank worthy of Molten Core.

[dgraz]

Okay, so that's one model in the entire game that puts the value in Furious Casting. I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can compare the two things...Flurry is still far more common and more damaging/powerful. All the Librarians in the world aren't going to save a few models that get Flurry-Decapitated from a Steamborg.

And, if you were allowed to break up the attacks, you would be able to see if the first attack killed..........didn't? swing again...okay now they're dead and I'll move on to someone else.

[Guardian]

I would trade flurry for melee expert any day of the week.

Flurry is imho overrated.

It's only good on models that can move without wasting a general AP...

Edited February 8, 2013 by Guardian

[i_was_like_you]

I would trade melee expert for flurry any day of the week.

Flurry is imho overrated.

It's only good on models that can move without wasting a general AP...

Usually thanks to help from other models.

---------- Post added at 03:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 AM ----------

Okay, so that's one model in the entire game that puts the value in Furious Casting. I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can compare the two things...Flurry is still far more common and more damaging/powerful. All the Librarians in the world aren't going to save a few models that get Flurry-Decapitated from a Steamborg.

And, if you were allowed to break up the attacks, you would be able to see if the first attack killed..........didn't? swing again...okay now they're dead and I'll move on to someone else.

Yes, yes, you would. Just like Melee Expert or Melee Master. Just in this case the model still would have sacked both a card and its general AP to get to berserker barrage everything around it.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Flurry and Rapid Fire just seems to be wasted on those very same models. They tend to have such high damage lines or insta-kill triggers that the rest of their activation is just wasted. Forcing them to spend their AP to thrash or shoot everything around them, still prevents them from moving anywhere.

The Librarian's Healing is quite devastating to an opponent, as models that were on the brink of death one moment, are now back to fighting strength, especially any with Hard to Kill.

That's sort of the point, they have high damage and lots of strikes, pefect for taking down masters with high Df and use soulsones

[i_was_like_you]

That's sort of the point, they have high damage and lots of strikes, pefect for taking down masters with high Df and use soulsones

If they should be that lucky. Big models like that tend to have little to no df of their own, just glass cannons. Getting them into position and getting initiative, without having über cheaty tricks like the Dreamer has, takes quite some doing. Far easier to deplete the master's resources with mid-range models.

It's become a running joke with my group to not even try to take down a master or henchman with a Peacekeeper. In fact, just keep it far, far away from them. All three swings at Kaeris whiffed, then she turned it into a flame pillar. Another game it tried to charge a trapper, VonSchill hopped over to it and carved his name in its chest.

While we're on the topic of armor, maybe the down to a minimum of 1 should be revised. The new Strongarm armor, ignoring 1 or 2 damage altogether seems to work better. Too bad it doesn't stop pulses and blasts like real freikorps armor.

Edited February 8, 2013 by i_was_like_you

[Adran]

I would trade flurry for melee expert any day of the week.

Flurry is imho overrated.

It's only good on models that can move without wasting a general AP...

Sure Melee expert is much better than flurry. But you pay for the difference.

Taelor vs Johan is probably the nearest comparision between melee expert and Flurry. And Taelor costs 2 ss more. (There are other factors such that I think Johan with melee expert would be bettter than Taelor is now)

Flurry probably generates 1 extra attack a game (and if it weren't for marionettes it would probably average even less) melee expert probably gets 4 extra attacks a game.

But there is still a place for flurry.

[mythicFOX]

It's become a running joke with my group to not even try to take down a master or henchman with a Peacekeeper. In fact, just keep it far, far away from them.

As a rule of thumb in Malifaux you can't kill models who have Soul Stones with models which don't.

All three swings at Kaeris whiffed, then she turned it into a flame pillar.

Isn't that spell Rst: Wp?