The three little Crooligans

[Math Mathonwy]

I own the Molly box. Since I have the minis, I feel the need to use them at least once, no matter how bad they are. But let's face it, they really dropped the ball on the Crooligans. It feels like they were supposed to be 3SS but got a 33% price hike at the last minute or something. Not that they would be very good even at that cost but at least they wouldn't feel like you're actively trying to cripple yourself by using them.

But yeah, enough of that, I need a crew featuring three Crooligans. I kinda feel that having Molly in the lead would make the crew even worse, so here's my first draft:

Ressurectionists Crew - 35 - Scrap

Seamus, The Mad-Hatter

--

4 Pool

Grave Spirit [1ss]

Molly Squidpiddge

[9ss]

Necrotic Machine [2ss]

• Crooligan
  [4ss]
  
  
• Crooligan
  [4ss]
  
  
• Crooligan
  [4ss]
  
  
• Punk Zombie
  [5ss]
  
  
• Rotten Belles
  [4ss]
  
  

Yeah, it's rather horrorrific... well, horrible, to be honest. Really little hitting power and not much staying power either. Also not very fast. I feel like the list might struggle against some of the better 25SS builds.

I'm seriously considering leaving out the Necrotic Machine to have at least some kinda of a cache. Any other suggestions? An identical list but with McMourning in the lead would likely be tons better, I guess.

[Gruesome]

In before a small set of "Crooligans are really good, you just have to play them better... <crickets>" posts start appearing.

[bcaswell]

No suggestions just thought I would say well done for playing them. I agree the Crooligans are poor but it's refreshing too see some one using a sub optimal list. Maybe you will start a trent of people playing more models just for fun.

[Gruesome]

Mind you, it has not been great, by any stretch, but the use I have for a Crooligan that has been most "effective" has been as a Nicodem escort. Bolster helps them. I like using the Mist as an intervening obstruction to give Nico some ranged cover from 1 side so that he is saving his AP for Rigor Mortis. So enroute, he or his totem will be casting Fog, but once in place, I'd rather save his AP. so they bring up the mist.

I have never had success attempting to actually use them for objectives finding Night Terrors to be MUCH better. And in a Seamus/Molly list, I actually like belles and even Doxies more. (That is the nail in coffin for me, when the Dead Doxy is better at something than you)

[ukrocky]

Crooligans are really good, you just have to play them better.

[Serigala]

Crooligans are really good, you just have to play them better.

So you'll be taking three of them to the Masters then?

[PZN]

I guess using one or two of them might be good, but three feels like too much wasted SS to me.

[Clement]

If you're taking crooligans you really need 2 at the bare minimum. Because of how they work they get multiplicatively better the more you have.

[Tokaji]

If you're taking crooligans you really need 2 at the bare minimum. Because of how they work they get multiplicatively better the more you have.

Which is really rather unfortunate. I don't mind Crooligans with the right Strat or Scheme combo, and the models are fantastic, but I would probably run them with McM, as you said. Then cut the Machine and attach the Spirit to Molly. Then at least when the Crooligans die (lets face it, they're really best for running interference anyway), then you can summon much better stuff to replace them. On that same note, I'd probably put in two dogs instead of the Belle, but that's just my crazy sacrificial playstyle talking.

[Mehter]

I like two Crooligans with an Avatar Seamus list against some Masters.

[JisaacT]

I'm going to have to try that one out soon.

[Math Mathonwy]

Mind you, it has not been great, by any stretch, but the use I have for a Crooligan that has been most "effective" has been as a Nicodem escort. Bolster helps them. I like using the Mist as an intervening obstruction to give Nico some ranged cover from 1 side so that he is saving his AP for Rigor Mortis. So enroute, he or his totem will be casting Fog, but once in place, I'd rather save his AP. so they bring up the mist.

OK, that's an interesting idea. I didn't consider Nico at all since Crooligans might be spirits when they kick the bucket thus being sorta anti-synergistic, but I can see the merit in the approach. So what would you suggest taking besides Molly and the three Crooligans if I went the Nico way?

I have never had success attempting to actually use them for objectives finding Night Terrors to be MUCH better. And in a Seamus/Molly list, I actually like belles and even Doxies more. (That is the nail in coffin for me, when the Dead Doxy is better at something than you)

Haha, I know! And those were the Molly-additions in third book... sheesh. I wonder if the playtesters hated Molly or something.

Which is really rather unfortunate. I don't mind Crooligans with the right Strat or Scheme combo, and the models are fantastic, but I would probably run them with McM, as you said. Then cut the Machine and attach the Spirit to Molly. Then at least when the Crooligans die (lets face it, they're really best for running interference anyway), then you can summon much better stuff to replace them. On that same note, I'd probably put in two dogs instead of the Belle, but that's just my crazy sacrificial playstyle talking.

It must be something obvious, but I have a headache currently - why is it important to attach Spirit to Molly?

I like two Crooligans with an Avatar Seamus list against some Masters.

Aye, Avatar option is certainly a lot better than the Necrotic Machine. Still, would need 2SS more I think.

I think I can talk my usual opponent into going with a full beast-list Marcus, so we'd both be playing some really lousy lists. So if you have insight on such a match-up with the three Crooligans, it would be much appreciated.

[PZN]

If you're taking crooligans you really need 2 at the bare minimum. Because of how they work they get multiplicatively better the more you have.

But why do I need more than 2? May be I don't get the synergetic right between them but the synergetic in my opinion is:

Activate first Crooligan that Crooligan starts in base contact with the second walk maximum 3" away cast (1) The Mist or drop 1 AP. Activate second crooligan cast (1) The Mist which needs quite a high card in my opinion(8). Use (1) Curiosity Calls and place the second crooligan in base contact to the first. So what did U get in the end? U spend 4 AP's for a 3" full cover move with +2Wk (U can't use the benefit) and +2Df (Ok thats nice).

I wonder whats the sens behind that? May be I don't get the ruling of (1) Curiosity Calls right but my example is how I catch a wording.

(1) Curiosity Calls: Place this model in base contact with a friendly Crooligan that is completely within the of The Mist.

I guess it would be much better if it would sound something like this:

(1) Curiosity Calls: If this model is completely within the of The Mist of a friendly crooligan place it in base contact with that model.

May be I'm completely wrong with my understanding and my suggestion but I’m nosy what u think about it.

[Gruesome]

OK, that's an interesting idea. I didn't consider Nico at all since Crooligans might be spirits when they kick the bucket thus being sorta anti-synergistic, but I can see the merit in the approach. So what would you suggest taking besides Molly and the three Crooligans if I went the Nico way?

Woah Nelly!

I was just describing my best current usage of a single Crooligan.

I have not had a good experience with 3 Crooligans yet, although it has been since before Adepticon that I fielded them, at this point.

Molly, as detailed at length in my Love-Ode to her has had her moments against the right sort of opponent. But I had no Crooligans with her.

I have no good advice on making 3 be worth 12 points. I was hoping someone else in this thread would.

These days I have time for MAYBE one game a week... Spending that game with Crooligans in the search for what works for me is not how I choose to spend my time. (Not when I have Yan Lo and Mr. "Too Sexy For my Armor" Izamu to field)

I am taking the lazy-approach and watching threads like this waiting for someone to describe something well that feels consistent and that I have not tried.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------

Activate first Crooligan that Crooligan starts in base contact with the second walk maximum 3" away cast (1) The Mist or drop 1 AP. Activate second crooligan cast (1) The Mist which needs quite a high card in my opinion(8). Use (1) Curiosity Calls and place the second crooligan in base contact to the first. So what did U get in the end? U spend 4 AP's for a 3" full cover move with +2Wk (U can't use the benefit) and +2Df (Ok thats nice).

Crooligan "A" casts Mist.

Crooligan "B" is anywhere else on the board, including complete other side. He uses Curiosity Calls and teleports to Crooligan A.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Gruesome

[PZN]

It must be something obvious, but I have a headache currently - why is it important to attach Spirit to Molly?

Because with Grave Spirit (1SS cost) connected with Molly U are able to cast (1)The Philosophy of Uncertainty via (1)Magical Extension by using a SS to Kill an opponent’s Beat stick. All U need is a high :crows!!

Link Spirit to a fast Model (Bell who activates in Molly and Seamus +Wk boost) so the Bell walk up to 14" thru severe terrain Place Spirit in contact to her base use a Wk action with spirit another 4" and Target a opponent model within 4". So U get an 22"+30mm instant kill by spending 2SS. That’s really awesome! I use it often! If u cast (1)Imbue Vigor on both u can speed it up by additional 9"!!!!

---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------

Crooligan "A" casts Mist.

Crooligan "B" is anywhere else on the board, including complete other side. He uses Curiosity Calls and teleports to Crooligan A.

Are you sure of it?

I thought it means something like this:

Original: that is completely within the of The Mist.

How I catch the wording: that is completely within the of that models The Mist

In that case they are better than I thought!

Edited January 10, 2013 by PZN

[Sarsnick]

Because with Grave Spirit (1SS cost) connected with Molly U are able to cast (1)The Philosophy of Uncertainty via (1)Magical Extension by using a SS to Kill an opponent’s Beat stick. All U need is a high :crows!!

Link Spirit to a fast Model (Bell who activates in Molly and Seamus +Wk boost) so the Bell walk up to 14" thru severe terrain Place Spirit in contact to her base use a Wk action with spirit another 4" and Target a opponent model within 4". So U get an 18"+30mm instant kill by spending 2SS. That’s really awesome! I use it often!

---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------

Are you sure of it?

I thought it means something like this:

Original: that is completely within the of The Mist.

How I catch the wording: that is completely within the of that models The Mist

In that case they are better than I thought!

Replace the word "The Mist" with something like "forest" and it makes more sense.

Think of the use of the word "The Mist" as any instance of the effect on the board, not just the Crooligan specific Mist.

[Math Mathonwy]

I was just describing my best current usage of a single Crooligan.

I have not had a good experience with 3 Crooligans yet, although it has been since before Adepticon that I fielded them, at this point.

Molly, as detailed at length in my Love-Ode to her has had her moments against the right sort of opponent. But I had no Crooligans with her.

I have no good advice on making 3 be worth 12 points. I was hoping someone else in this thread would.

Heh, you and me both. But seriously, Bolster, Mist and Defensive Stance would mean that A Crooligan would be next to impossible to shift from an objective. Which might be useful in some cornercase best-case situation, I guess.

These days I have time for MAYBE one game a week... Spending that game with Crooligans in the search for what works for me is not how I choose to spend my time.

Oh, I'm not looking for a learning experience to find out the secret of Crooligans - I simply have the minis so not using them seems like I wasted money. Or something equally silly.

Because with Grave Spirit (1SS cost) connected with Molly U are able to cast (1)The Philosophy of Uncertainty via (1)Magical Extension by using a SS to Kill an opponent’s Beat stick. All U need is a high :crows!!

Heh, well yeah. It was kinda obvious indeed. My excuse is my headache.

Link Spirit to a fast Model (Bell who activates in Molly and Seamus +Wk boost) so the Bell walk up to 14" thru severe terrain Place Spirit in contact to her base use a Wk action with spirit another 4" and Target a opponent model within 4". So U get an 22"+30mm instant kill by spending 2SS. That’s really awesome! I use it often! If u cast (1)Imbue Vigor on both u can speed it up by additional 9"!!!!

Ooh, not a bad combo. Nice!

[Pierowmaniac]

Im debating if I might give more than 3 a go with Molly on a number of strategies (such as destroy the evidence).

If you have 6 (YES 6) runing around in pairs you can almost be sure at least 1 of each pair will get a mist up and allow all sorts of movement schenanigans.

Just an idea, and I have got the models to give it go sometime.

[Math Mathonwy]

Im debating if I might give more than 3 a go with Molly on a number of strategies (such as destroy the evidence).

If you have 6 (YES 6) runing around in pairs you can almost be sure at least 1 of each pair will get a mist up and allow all sorts of movement schenanigans.

Just an idea, and I have got the models to give it go sometime.

Well, that's pretty bonkers. But since you have the models... Be sure to report how it goes.

Here's a different list:

Ressurectionists Crew - 35 - Scrap

Dr. Douglas McMourning

--

8 Pool

Zombie Chihuahua [1ss]

Molly Squidpiddge

[9ss]

Grave Spirit [1ss]

• Crooligan
  [4ss]
  
  
• Crooligan
  [4ss]
  
  
• Crooligan
  [4ss]
  
  
• Izamu, the Armor
  [10ss]
  
  

Certainly bonkers. The idea would be to try to use the Chihuahua as something else besides just cheap bodyparts - no idea if it's viable but as long as I'm going to be fielding a stupid crew, I might as well go all in, I guess.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'd drop the chihuahua and bring another grave spirit. If you aren't going to chop him up then the Grave spirit is superior I feel as it is harder to kill, doesn't have to move under it's own power, helps keep another model alive, and has the same casting as the Chihuahua. The fact that it doesn't have to move under it's own power also allows it to more easily channel cast dissection.

[Math Mathonwy]

I'd drop the chihuahua and bring another grave spirit. If you aren't going to chop him up then the Grave spirit is superior I feel as it is harder to kill, doesn't have to move under it's own power, helps keep another model alive, and has the same casting as the Chihuahua. The fact that it doesn't have to move under it's own power also allows it to more easily channel cast dissection.

As usual, you're full of wisdom. It's just that I don't own two Grave Spirits and I don't see myself using two often, so I guess I'll go with the inferior choice. But you are extremely correct.