Using Ikiryo Effectively

[LupusFerreus]

I've recently started with Kirai, my first Resser master. Whilst I've had fun with the whole summoning thing and am getting the hang of it slowly, one thing that still bothers me is: Ikiryo. She has so far been immensely underwhelming and this is something I can't just ignore and do without as she is, both fluff and realistically, a big part of my crew.

My problems are:

• Only Df 5, 5 wounds - easy to kill, even if it's NOT a master. How do I stop her dying every turn? That's losing two cards a turn.
  
• How to kill Masters in Strategies that might/will depend on using her, as well as her scheme. I really wish she had Use Soulstone, she is a manifestation of Kirai after all! I find she can't kill Masters who can cheat and soulstone.
  
• Summoning placement - I could really use some advice on when to activate the trigger vs putting her too far forward, when to summon her in activation order, summoning position on the board
  
• How can you make her more effective before she dies, as you can't give her Reactivate the same turn you summon her.
  

Basically I think I've been careless so far but my fear of being overly cautious (a general game trait of mine) will cost me getting the most out of her.

[Tiny]

I usually kill her every turn unless im going to be doing sometihng else with 1 of my ap on kirai.

I'll usually summon her to where i want to into the spirit world turn 1 and occasionally through the game as well.

But a usual turn will have activate an ikiryo i summoned last turn first to get a full activation out of it and maybe some movement with her (0). Then kirai will summon something a shikome with dont blink trigger for example then i'll absorb spirit on the ikiryo (healing 4 wds) so you have to discard 2 cards usually not an issue. I'll then summon her again and rinse repeat. Obviously I wont always be summoning with both activations if i want something to die i'll chill of death but thats more kirai tech than ikiryo.

Basically with all the non living crews around i dont mind if she dies overly because it gives me another seishin to work with i just dont want her to die before she activates.

Hopefully this is somewhat coherent doing like 4 things at once.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The Ikiryo isn't Chompy. I know it sounds odd to say this but from what I've seen so many people seem to expect the Ikiryo to be a Chompy level threat, and I really don't understand why. the best way, at least I've found to utilize the Ikiryo fall into general patterns of usage.

#1: If possible, Kirai usually wants to activate after the opponent's crew has gone, or at least after the majority of the threats are done for the turn.

#2: Don't throw the Ikiryo up against the opposing resilient beatsticks or masters turn after turn. In general you want the Ikiryo munching on their objective grabbers, their support, their ranged threats, models the Ikiryo can often deal with in one activtion, as you often want the Healing flip she gives Kirai. This also has the decidedly pleasant benefit of reducing the opposing model count, increasing your activation advantage.

#3: If it is tactically important to attack an opposing Master or resilient Beatstick, again try to have the Ikiryo activate after they have gone, and then contest, if possible, for initiative the next turn. If you win get to attacking with the Ikiryo first thing. Potentially giving you 3 Ikiryo activations across 2 turns.

#4: Know when to cheat the Ikiryo's defense. Remember she is a renewable resource. If she doesn't NEED to stay alive then potentially let her die. If you figure you would have cheated 2 cards to keep her alive through a turn, think about that that means. Those 2 cheated cards were most likely going to be decent to high value cards, just to keep a model that could return anyway in the game. Let her die, and instead lose the two lowest value cards in your hand, then bring her back later.

#5: Never undervalue the psychological impact she provides. Remember even if it fells like all she is doing is dying every turn think about, in mechanics what that means. If it takes an average of two or more swings to put her down then that means that that was pretty much the attacking model's full activation for that round, a mechanical version of Paralyze. Additionally, while it feels like your spinning your wheels think about how much worse it is for the opponent. They have to choose between letting a moderately dangerous beatstick continue to threaten and roam around as she wishes, or to continually drain resources and activations putting her down turn after turn. The is a frustrating feeling, which you can certainly use to your advantage.

[Ratty]

Yep as people have said accept she is going to die. And this is fine, the opponent gains nothing from killing her, so every AP they waste is an AP they could have been using on something else. Also remember she is a Spirit so even with 5Wds she takes a bit of killing. If she does survive, but is a bit mauled, just eat her with Kirai to cycle 2 cards and allow you to summon her again (her summon is very cheap compared with most Rezer summoning, especially coupled with the fact that Kirai crews are not actually that crow intensive)

The other thing I feel people underestimate is Ikiryo (0) action which is amazing.. 18" bubble, that is almost always your entire crew, that may move 4" towards Ikiryo. That can make a huge difference.

I have in the past had Ikiryo take down Rasputina turn 2, wipe out everything in a Pandora crew but Pandora by turn 3. She may not be the best model in the game, but she can still lay down the hurt.. especially if she is getting to activate twice a turn.

Also remember she doesn't use spirits to be summoned, but creates a Seishin if killed, or can be used as a spirit for other summoing.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Ratty

[LupusFerreus]

Thanks guys, that's immensely helpful. I must remember that (0) Action, as well as +2 wounds healed from Absorb Spirit with Ikiryo!

Would you say it's important to summon her turn 1 in order for her to do something really useful on Turn 2, without the slow?

[underdog6750]

Turn 1 i usually summon a shikome i usually summon ikyrio turn 2 if i get the dont blink trigger try place her in melee of something she can easily kill off on a flank. Or out of harms way ready to be swirled into melee in the subsequent turn.

Also if you sacrifice ikyrio (absorb spirit) you discard 2 cards but also draw 2. You heal 4 wounds and gain fast. This can be really usefull if you dont have a decent hand.

Her (0) action is great. Moving your slow moving spirits an extra 4". This dosnt have to be directly towards her. But just towards her so you can move on a tangent if this places you better.

She is a spirit with 5 (10) wounds against non magical attacks. She can also attack an opponents wp stat instead of df. If you have the insidious madness this can give a - flip to wp so ikyrio will flip a straight card and your opponent a - meaning they cant cheat.

Try not throw her into a vulnerable position or take on something she cant smack of the table in an activation.

I know some of the points have been mentioned already but they are all valid and definately worth reiterating. Good luck with your kirai crew

[Ratty]

Her (0) action is great. Moving your slow moving spirits an extra 4". This dosnt have to be directly towards her. But just towards her so you can move on a tangent if this places you better.

This is incorrect, see the clarification, towards has to take the most direct route, but unlike directly towards it can go round obstacles.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I would also recommend that you read the FAQ and the section on Pushes, highlighting how a Belle's Lure works. I find this is the most commonly misunderstood rule after companion.

Essentially when you must move towards something, as opposed to directly towards you still don't really have any choice in how the model moves. For example, if a model is at the top of a high cliff and a belle lures it towards her you don't have the choice to just climb down, in order to not get dragged quite as far, and to avoid the dmg from falling. You must get as close to the belle as possible at the end of the move. Climbing down won't get you as close to the Belle as walking off the edge, taking some dmg, and then moving some extra distance will, so that's what you have to do.

If you are on the edge of a lake of lava, with a bridge right next to you, if moving to the side a little and crossing the bridge will get you closer to the belle then slogging through the difficult ground of the lava, then as the Disney Sleepy Hollow song exclaims, "Head for the bridge, with all your might!". However if plunging into the lava and only getting a couple inches in will be closer to the Belle then moving for a bridge more distant than right next to you, then burn, baby, burn.

The advantage of the Ikiryo's movement ability is that firstly you can choose which spirits in range take part in the move, the the ability is worded "may", and you may move them "up to 4" ", thus meaning if it wouldn't be advantageous, or dangerous to take the full move you don't need to. You can take what you need and stop. Just remember there really isn't a choice in the path you take.

If I'm incorrect on that interpretation I'm sure Ratty will correct me shortly. =)

[Ratty]

I would also recommend that you read the FAQ and the section on Pushes, highlighting how a Belle's Lure works. I find this is the most commonly misunderstood rule after companion.

Essentially when you must move towards something, as opposed to directly towards you still don't really have any choice in how the model moves. For example, if a model is at the top of a high cliff and a belle lures it towards her you don't have the choice to just climb down, in order to not get dragged quite as far, and to avoid the dmg from falling. You must get as close to the belle as possible at the end of the move. Climbing down won't get you as close to the Belle as walking off the edge, taking some dmg, and then moving some extra distance will, so that's what you have to do.

If you are on the edge of a lake of lava, with a bridge right next to you, if moving to the side a little and crossing the bridge will get you closer to the belle then slogging through the difficult ground of the lava, then as the Disney Sleepy Hollow song exclaims, "Head for the bridge, with all your might!". However if plunging into the lava and only getting a couple inches in will be closer to the Belle then moving for a bridge more distant than right next to you, then burn, baby, burn.

The advantage of the Ikiryo's movement ability is that firstly you can choose which spirits in range take part in the move, the the ability is worded "may", and you may move them "up to 4" ", thus meaning if it wouldn't be advantageous, or dangerous to take the full move you don't need to. You can take what you need and stop. Just remember there really isn't a choice in the path you take.

If I'm incorrect on that interpretation I'm sure Ratty will correct me shortly. =)

That all looks right to me.

[underdog6750]

Oh right cheers for clearing that up for me. I was asuming the diferance may towards just ment you had to end the move closer. Not that the model had to take the most direct route. Duely noted for future play thanks

[LupusFerreus]

I would also recommend that you read the FAQ and the section on Pushes, highlighting how a Belle's Lure works. I find this is the most commonly misunderstood rule after companion.

Homework, yay! Seriously though thanks, I will look into this. I've already learned that Push is considered a Movement Effect (when I thought it wasn't) so anything that says you can't move or whatever, also affects Ikiryo's (and other Spirits') pushing abilities. Does that mean Ikiryo can't Push people out of combat?

[Ratty]

Pushes ignore disengaging strikes, It's what makes a push different from a normal move.

[LupusFerreus]

Oh. Otherwise, movement impairing spells and effects also target pushing?

[Ratty]

Depends..

Something that affect Wk or Cg will only affect a Push that uses that stat. So -2 Wk, will affect Lure that moves a model their Wk towards the Belle, but not Ikiryo push as that is a flat 4". Difficult terrain will affect a Push in the same way as a normal Walk action, so your Push will be halved unless you have something like flight or spirit that will allow you to ignore it. Something that stops you Moving like Freezes Over will stop Pushes.

The only exceptions are "Push into Base to Base" and "Push to Within/completely Within" which should be read for all purposes now as "Place into Base to Base" and "Place to Within/completely Within". So, really, are no longer treated as Pushes at all.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Ratty