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Icemyn

A few Timing Questions

Question

So lets say I have a Desolation Engine with 2 wounds left. He makes a melee strike against Kaeris which costs him 1 wound immediately leaving him at 1 wound. Now he hits Kaeris which triggers her flaming armor which does 1 dg to the engine leaving him at 0 Wd. Desolate Engine has Consuming Touch which heals him for 1 Wd for each Wd he inflicts on the defender.

Does Desolation Engine just Die without inflicting Dmg even though he hit? Does he go to 0 wds resolve the dmg, resulting in a heal and live to swing again? or some other option.?

Pg 44: "A model reduced to 0 Wd will be removed from the game as killed unless an effect that could prevent the Wd or heal the model to 1 or more Wd is applied.

Bonus Question:

aLeviticus is at 1 Wd and Does Severe dmg to a 1 Wd Lilith.

Does the Black Blood Kill aLevi before he can heal because of killing her with Destructive Infusing?

Double Bonus:

Replace aLeviticus with Desoloation Engine.

Does the Desolation Engine get killed before it can heal from Consuming Touch?

Edited by Icemyn

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I think this section answers your questions:

http://www.malifaux.com/Errata.php#DamResSec

Specifically, the model only dies when reduced to 0 wds. any triggers occur during step one, so I think the desolation engine heals, then takes the damage, then whatever the new total is gets converted into wds.

It looks like black blood would not occur until step 5, as it's an effect that triggers upon taking dmg/wds.

Edited by Dracomax

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I'm going to throw up my guesses, just as a starting point:

So lets say I have a Desolation Engine with 2 wounds left. He makes a melee strike against Kaeris which costs him 1 wound immediately leaving him at 1 wound. Now he hits Kaeris which triggers her flaming armor which does 1 dg to the engine leaving him at 0 Wd. Desolate Engine has Consuming Touch which heals him for 1 Wd for each Wd he inflicts on the defender.

The DE is killed after he hits Kaeris. We interrupt the damage against her to kill him, splitting into SPAs and such. Then we resume the damage against her. By the time the DE would heal, it's long gone.

aLeviticus is at 1 Wd and Does Severe dmg to a 1 Wd Lilith.

Does the Black Blood Kill aLevi before he can heal because of killing her with Destructive Infusing?

Same deal, except later. aLevi dies in the "suffer wounds" step of the damage against Lilith.

Edit: He does have a chance to spend a soulstone to prevent the wound from Black Blood, thus living (and getting the healing flip for killing her).

Replace aLeviticus with Desoloation Engine.

Does the Desolation Engine get killed before it can heal from Consuming Touch?

The DE heals off a trigger "when damage is inflicted", so he'll gain hit Wds back before the Black Blood damages him. He lives.

Edited by CRC

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After being corrected on Black blood, I think I have this.

Okay, Not sure when Kaeris's armor hits(don't have the card in front of me) but I think the relevant points are that Black Blood hits when you take wounds, so step 4. Wounds are applied in step 5. Consuming touch specifically Occurs after damaging model, which is explicitly step 6.

Assuming you die on step 5, if reduced to 0 wds(rather than after step 6) then DE would indeed hit die. Unless a rules martial has ruled otherwise, that's how I'd play it.

I don't know about ALevi's ability either for the same reason as Kaeris.

Edit

For Clarity:

Consuming touch:after damaging defending model with entropy claws strike, heal this model 1 wd for each wd it inflicted on the defender.

2nd edit:

I misread step5/6. Black blood occurs at step 4, Consuming touch occurs at step 5. AFAIK models are not declared dead until the end of step 5, so DE lives.

Edited by Dracomax

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Just a moment. Doesn't getting to 0 Wds automatically interrupt the Duel to remove the killed model? When the target dies it is the part of the normal flow of the Duel, but when it happens to the attacker, we have to deal with an interruption - I don't think you can easily place it into the timeline and resolve after the model gets a chance to heal. It's done and over with.

From my experience (can't check the rules now), the situations where healing prevents dying are always related to the Slow to die ability. This ability interrupts the killing procedure and gives the victim a chance to do something that must be fully resolved and as such can heal the model.

Otherwise the process of "dying" has to be executed entirely before you can proceed to the next step.

The only thing relevant here is when you apply the Wds from the Black Blood and Kaeris Armor. If you apply them before the attacker can heal, the attacker will die inevitably (only Slow to Die would help). If you apply them after it heals, then it will lose the wounds it freshly healed, but it won't die.

At least that's my take on things, without going deeper into the exact wording of the abilities.

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Black blood occurs at step 4, Consuming touch occurs at step 5. AFAIK models are not declared dead until the end of step 5, so DE lives.

We go through the steps twice, the second time in the middle of the first time:

Black Blood occurs on [DE vs Lilith]->step 4

--We start a new sequence for Black Blood vs DE.

--The DE is declared dead on [black Blood vs DE]->step 5

Back to the original damage sequence

We reach [DE vs Lilith]->step 5, but the DE is dead and can't use Consuming Touch.

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