ConqueringWyrm Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Woops! states that it suffers an unmodified damage flip, so does that mean I cannot cheat it or does it mean that its just unmodified by hard to wound, armour, etc... just a straight flip that can be cheated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 rgarbonzo Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 I've always taken it to mean that the damage flip is unmodified so that you cannot cheat it. Armor and such would still apply. Thats why the LaCroix have the Used to It ability to change the damage down to 0/0/1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DeusInnomen Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 "Unmodified" means it has no positive or negative flips. You can always cheat damage flips, provided there are no negative flips of course, and provided the ability does not say you may not cheat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 stochastic Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 That is the twisting fate rule right, so if all +'s and -'s ends up in 0 after adding abilities and etc., you may cheat? right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 edonil Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Aesop Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 That is the twisting fate rule right, so if all +'s and -'s ends up in 0 after adding abilities and etc., you may cheat? right? You may cheat on positive twists or straight flips, just not negative ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Cheating Whoops has been a proud Gremlin tradition from very near the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ConqueringWyrm Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Thanks for all the replies, I thought so but I was told otherwise by another player, thought I'd double check first with more experienced players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 psychocamel Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 If it said unmodifiable it would be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 polski Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Thanks for that info . I have been playing it wrong and didnt relise you could cheat it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Being able to dump low value cards for benefit is a gremlin strength. They are actually a very efficient crew all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ratty Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Think this is the appropriate quote Q. What does unmodifiable or uncheatable mean? A. Unmodifiable means the value cannot be modified in any way including Cheating in a new Card. Uncheatable means the flip cannot be Cheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) This could change a hell of a lot so in regards to this specific ability: "Whoops!": When this model misses with a Boomstick Strike, the closest other friendly model within 10" ans LoS suffers an unmodified Damage Flip of 1/2/3:blast. If there are no other friendly models within 10" there is no effect. Does Unmodified equal unmodifiable? As I stated earlier this has been a pretty common recommendation (cheating down the damage of "Whoops!") over the years. I know this has been asked before (of course I cant locate any of those threads with the search engine right now) and seem to recall it always being treated the way DeusInnomen suggests in post #3 (i.e. that it isn't effected by things like Hard to Wound or level of success but in all other ways is a normal damage flip capable of being cheated down). Curious as to why this wording wasn't updated in the new 1.5 book to reduce confusion (though i have a gremlin in this fight I dont particularly care either way just looking for clarification). Edited September 2, 2012 by Omenbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Paddywhack Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 So, can someone clarify please. Is Unmodified the same as unmodifiable? I think that is what Ratty is saying, but it seems like a lot of people had been Cheating these flips for quite a while. As a fairly new player, and one looking at the little green vermin as a choice, this is a very important distinction. I originally thought that it was not Cheatable (not sure what else unmodified would mean really), but after reading this thread, it appears that that was not the general thought. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BC3 Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 So does unmodified mean unmodifiable? Also, the slop hauler says Woops is unmodifiable, is that intentional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 The models (Som'er & the Bayou Gremlins) in the 1.5 Edition Malifaux book still have Unmodified rather than Unmodifiable verbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BC3 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 A friend of mine insists that "unmodified" means the same thing as unmodifible. I insist that it just means that there is no or modifiers and that since it is a damage flip without modifiers it is cheatable. I think he wants a RM to say that "unmodified" and "unmodifiable" mean different things. I think it is pretty clear since they are different words. We wouldn't be arguing whether an "unpainted"model is the same thing as an "unpaintable" model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 arkno Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Cheating Fate When, specifically, am I allowed to Cheat Fate? You are allowed to Cheat Fate under the following circumstances: All Duels (when a neutral or positive flip) The Damage Flip (when a neutral or positive flip) When a specific rule allows If the flip was not part of a Duel, nor a Damage Flip, nor is stated as Cheatable, then you cannot Cheat the flip. For example, Healing Flips cannot be Cheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BC3 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Cheating Fate When, specifically, am I allowed to Cheat Fate? You are allowed to Cheat Fate under the following circumstances: All Duels (when a neutral or positive flip) The Damage Flip (when a neutral or positive flip) When a specific rule allows If the flip was not part of a Duel, nor a Damage Flip, nor is stated as Cheatable, then you cannot Cheat the flip. For example, Healing Flips cannot be Cheated. Correct. Woops is a damage flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 A friend of mine insists that "unmodified" means the same thing as unmodifible. This is what Ratty (Malifaux Rules Marshal) has stated, though it contradicts a few things mainly the ruling that attack (little a) is not the same as Attack (big A). I insist that it just means that there is no or modifiers and that since it is a damage flip without modifiers it is cheatable. This is what I (not a Rules Marshal) am arguing as well. Unmodified on a damage flip refers to and/ or not cheating fate. I think he wants a RM to say that "unmodified" and "unmodifiable" mean different things. I think it is pretty clear since they are different words. We wouldn't be arguing whether an "unpainted"model is the same thing as an "unpaintable" model. Rather funny observation however, I am waiting for the same thing. Correct. Woops is a damage flip. Whoops definitely results in a Damage Flip (even states it in the description) and as such would be Cheatable as long as unmodified does not equal Unmodifiable (which based on earlier precident with the attack vs Attack ruling should not be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 explorator Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 A friend of mine insists that "unmodified" means the same thing as unmodifible. I insist that it just means that there is no or modifiers and that since it is a damage flip without modifiers it is cheatable. I think he wants a RM to say that "unmodified" and "unmodifiable" mean different things. I think it is pretty clear since they are different words. We wouldn't be arguing whether an "unpainted"model is the same thing as an "unpaintable" model. I think it is unwise to apply the rules for the English language to Malifaux without differentiation. How about "unarguable" and "unargued"? Though I would like to think that Ratty answered this question in this very thread, his quote is rather ambiguous. It would be nice to get a clear answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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ConqueringWyrm
Woops! states that it suffers an unmodified damage flip, so does that mean I cannot cheat it or does it mean that its just unmodified by hard to wound, armour, etc... just a straight flip that can be cheated?
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