aColette wds Question

[merlinman]

how does the damage work on her exactly if decoys are hit ect.

Does half the damage go to the "real" colette and then half on the decoy? if so it seems as she will die very very fast now having 3 targets to hit

[DeusInnomen]

Apply the "Armor +1" to the damage (ignoring as normal if suffering wounds directly), then reduce the number by half and then inflict that number to the real Colette.

Edited August 24, 2012 by DeusInnomen
Incorrect explanation

[pixelante]

Are you sure about that, I thought that no damage was applied to Colette because you know the decoy is just an illusion. Even if at the minimum one damage you can still nickle and ddime a model to death which defeats the purpose of having a decoy.

[merlinman]

Are you sure about that, I thought that no damage was applied to Colette because you know the decoy is just an illusion. Even if at the minimum one damage you can still nickle and ddime a model to death which defeats the purpose of having a decoy.

makes sense, thats how i always played it but just something feels like im playing it wrong and wording little confusing

[DeusInnomen]

Are you sure about that, I thought that no damage was applied to Colette because you know the decoy is just an illusion. Even if at the minimum one damage you can still nickle and ddime a model to death which defeats the purpose of having a decoy.

Yep, quite sure. The Decoy has the "Nothing but Air" ability that states "This model does not suffer Dg or Wd. Instead, when it would suffer Dg or Wd, inflict half the Dg or Wd on a friendly Colette, Avatar of Deception."

[merlinman]

so before she is revealed as a decoy and takes dmg does she use the armor from the decoy or she cant cause she is using colettes card till revealed as a decoy?

[Ensis Ferrae]

My question here is, how do you half the damage, and then deal half of that to Colette?

As I read it, you reduce damage by 1, then deal half to Colette... so where does the second half come in?

[DeusInnomen]

so before she is revealed as a decoy and takes dmg does she use the armor from the decoy or she cant cause she is using colettes card till revealed as a decoy?

The moment the decoy suffers damage is when it's revealed and the Decoy card is used then "Nothing But Air" kicks in. "Suffers" is the amount of damage dealt by a source before armor and other reductions apply. Inflict is the wounds you actually reduce the model's Wound stat by (either after reducing damage with armor and other reductions or if something dealts Wounds directly).

My question here is, how do you half the damage, and then deal half of that to Colette?

As I read it, you reduce damage by 1, then deal half to Colette... so where does the second half come in?

Let's take an example. Let's say somebody hits "aColette", who is actually a Decoy, and deals out 5 Damage. This reveals her as a Decoy for the remainder of the turn. Then you apply Armor 1 from the Decoy stat card, which reduces the Damage to 4. You then apply the "Nothing But Air" ability and half the remaining Damage, getting 2 Damage, which is then applied to the actual aColette card.

[pixelante]

That is really lame, suddenly the idea of messing with my opponent and goading him into making useless attacks is a lot less appealing when he can kill aColette by spanking the goddamn decoy. I'll be crossing aCollette off my list. I'll be sticking to turning out mannequins and soulstones instead.

[Bigmike]

she does play different and i wont start a who is better or worse argument, all i wanna say is give her a shot, proxy her if you want but give her at least 4 games before you send her to oblivion

[Iamwyrd]

Plus she has three models that essentially are acolette until revealed. Even when revealed, she can be whittled down but she is still a master, so she has means of negating damage. Plus most stuff around her shouldn't be able to whittle her down.

In my book taking half damage is better than them striking her directly and her taking full damage. Acolette is different, but she is a blast to play.

[Q'iq'el]

That is really lame, suddenly the idea of messing with my opponent and goading him into making useless attacks is a lot less appealing when he can kill aColette by spanking the goddamn decoy. I'll be crossing aCollette off my list. I'll be sticking to turning out mannequins and soulstones instead.

I wonder what you've been planning to do, because somehow this doesn't seem to apply to Colette's crew or her avatar at all?!?

First of all, aColette can still make healing flips, right? If you manifest with full SS cache, which is doable, these halved wounds are easy to recover. For the opponent, it means a waste of a really powerful attack just to apply 3-4 Wds. Most likely you won't see more than 1-2 per pop, so 2-4 Wds transferring to the avatar, maybe?.

There are two Decoys but you use Nothing but Air only once per Decoy - when it gets hit and revealed to be a Decoy. So how many Wds will the real Avatar get? 2? 3? Practically speaking it won't go higher.

Then you have to consider when she manifests. It is not one of them turn 2 avatars and it probably would be counter-productive to go with it that early (just my impression though). If you manifest turn 4 or 5 the opponent may simply not get the opportunity to attack both Decoys with attacks big enough to dent the real avatar.

And you have to consider the opponent can always happen to hit your real avatar, so hanging your strategy on something that uncertain seems problematic to begin with.

I guess this is a long-winded way to say "what's the problem?".

[merlinman]

i agree with you, avatars arent always super powered versions of the original. They add something different. As for Colette i usually waittill turn 4 5 or 6, but mostly 5 or 6, as the first couple turns you would kill the big models with manaquinn replacement so shouldnt be too many big threats, and her avatar helps well taking last objectives if you didnt complete them on turn 1 or 2

[Grantt]

aColette ceases to be field control and becomes all about the Card Shenanigans. It's very hard to inflict damage on a master when your control hand is awful and you're being forced to draw useless cards. Plus, being an end-game manifest, you suddenly change tack and start ruining your enemy's hand at a crucial time - when they're trying to achieve objectives. It's the epitome of hit and run; precise, surgical strikes in (with the Coryphee and Cassandra) followed by a smoke screen as you pull back (card shenanigans aColette).

[Ensis Ferrae]

Let's take an example. Let's say somebody hits "aColette", who is actually a Decoy, and deals out 5 Damage. This reveals her as a Decoy for the remainder of the turn. Then you apply Armor 1 from the Decoy stat card, which reduces the Damage to 4. You then apply the "Nothing But Air" ability and half the remaining Damage, getting 2 Damage, which is then applied to the actual aColette card.

,

That's how i read the rule, however an example given above suggested that aColette takes half of the 2 damage (using your example)

Which didn't make any sense in the previous explanation.

[DeusInnomen]

,

That's how i read the rule, however an example given above suggested that aColette takes half of the 2 damage (using your example)

Which didn't make any sense in the previous explanation.

If you're referring to the example in the opening question, that was incorrect. Decoys do not actually have a Wd stat, as noted by the "*" on their card. You're reducing any damage (after Armor) they take by half and transferring it to aColette. The other half is gone.

[Ensis Ferrae]

Apply the "Armor +1" to the damage (ignoring as normal if suffering wounds directly), then reduce the number by half and then inflict half that number to the real Colette.

This was the example given that confused me, since there is mentioned, two half damages. As we've seen, damage is halved once and applied to Colette.

[DeusInnomen]

This was the example given that confused me, since there is mentioned, two half damages. As we've seen, damage is halved once and applied to Colette.

Oh hell, I didn't even notice that error. I'm really sorry about that. I'm updating that post.

[DeleteAccount]

My question to add to this, can I keep on wailing on the fake to keep pilling more damage on Colette whem it is revealed? Because that can be a very dead Colette seeing how when it is revealed to be a decoy it has crap defense stats that even a canine remain can pile into.

[Grifonetto]

Yeah, exactly. If the Decoys weren't points of vulnerability for the real thing, then you could just throw them in your opponent's face without caring how obvious it was that they're fake, and there wouldn't be much deception to the Avatar of Deception. Right?

[Ensis Ferrae]

I'd think that once they are revealed, it'd be like hitting a performer, or mannequin, or coryphee (ad nauseam) in that you wouldnt do the half damage any more, and merely "kill" the illusion.

[CRC]

The decoys have * as their Wd stat. Damage/Wounds do nothing to them.

However, Nothing But Air continues to work just fine after they've been revealed, so people can keep pumping (damage -1) / 2 through the decoys to aColette.

[merlinman]

The decoys have * as their Wd stat. Damage/Wounds do nothing to them.

However, Nothing But Air continues to work just fine after they've been revealed, so people can keep pumping (damage -1) / 2 through the decoys to aColette.

Thats how i took it.