Gollum528 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Or are the forums bumming anyone else out lately?? I don't know if anyone else here uses Malifaux as an escape from the nonsense the rest of the world throws out but I do. I mean, there are other things going on in my life but I use Malifaux as a means of forgetting for a little bit that I have obligations to the world. Almost everything about it (except gluing the models) is therapeutic and I don't understand why it seems like so many people are so upset over what seems so silly and inconsequential. I apologize to anyone if that sounds condescending but I just don't understand and reading about it is exhausting. It may just be me and I might be missing something though. Does anyone else feel ths way?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well, the rest of the forums seem to be running as normal, there just seems to be a bit more hotheadedness centered around the release information. That's probably not going to go away until people stop getting so confrontational about both the information getting released and about the complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 You're not the lone ranger, believe me. Try to put a positive spin on it.....they wouldn't be upset if they didn't really love the game. I know it's difficult when you read some of the posts to believe this.....you have to train your mind to see it. Every time you read a negative post....just think to yourself..."this guy doesn't express himself very well, but he must really love Malifaux." I know it's weak, but it's the only help I can offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Yeah, I'm right with you, kind of bummed out. I also really see the forums as our community and we do our best to keep it a place which is warm and inviting and just a fun place to be. It's why it's so frustrating when people just find the need to go out of their way to be mean or lash out at others or at wyrd. Sorry you have to deal with it as well, we do try to do our best to defuse situations when we can, without being too heavy handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Yeah, I'm right with you, kind of bummed out. Sucks to give so much and have to feel that way. Take heart that there are many of us that truly appreciate all that you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 There's always going to be doldrums in any community from time to time, even in the really good ones. You just need to keep your chin up and do some painting until things blow over. I know you have those new models that you haven't gotten to painting yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum528 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think it wouldn't be as bad if I understood where the frustration is coming from but I don't see where wyrd has messed up to warrant any frustration. I do hope that the frustration ends after gen con though. I suppose it's from their excitement not being fully satisfied at the moment. I appreciate your responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Eh its just a Game but for many people its a very important part of there lives. Hobbys are often used as a outlet to escape frustrations. Problem is for what ever reason when that hobby stop making us happy it can be very frustraiting. Issue becomes as players we have little control over the direction the game takes. Yes you can play by your own house rules or what ever but at the end of the day most of the people you play with are going to run by wyrds rules. So when a frustrated player comes in going wtf this sucks and some one else comments back with a jab you end up with people losing it. Eric if the current enviorment of wyrd proves frustrating for players and you guys perhaps try book 5 in the way path finder did. You have moved to giving us a bit more insight into what you guys are doing and thinking and its awsome. I think by opening up rules to the player base before they see print can solve a lot of hamlin and errata issues. Imho rules and balance issues are what bring the drama that haunts the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setoth Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Maybe it's just me, but I still feel like this is no where near as bad as it is with the 40k/Fantasy community. And I freely say this as someone who was vocal and probably obnoxiously negative about GW during fifth edition. I have yet to see anyone accuse Wyrd of being money-hungry soul-sucking demons from a yet-to-be-named Hell (though someone did recently come close). And I can almost objectively say that nothing here has gotten as ugly as the WarmaHORDES/40k fights I've seen on some forums. Maybe it's because Wyrd is new and they've had an impressive track record with putting customers first, like the TerraClips issue with the thickness of the plastic. Maybe it's the fact that it's so character driven that people enjoy identifying with a particular master and tolerate some unfairness better. Maybe I think this way because the forums I go to are just filled with the worst of the worst and by comparison I'm just not bothered by this. But even in the worst posts I've seen here there seems to be good heart. So nah, I'm not overly bummed out. I hope to stick around these forums for a good while. Malifaux is too much fun not to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malovane Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Its definitely shocking that with gencon, dead head, and a new expansion coming there has been such a wave of bitterness. All the excitement for gencon and a new expansion certainly have been miscolored by some negative aspects of a gaming community. There will always be those very entitled and very vocal members who infect and bring down the overall tone of the boards. It happens with most any hobby. Its rather easy to loose sight of the fun and the game and become enboiled in a personal vision of what that game should be. It becomes more than a casual hobby for some; it becomes a kind of relationship with the level of attachment and commitment involved. Being a one-directional relationship, it seems easy for people to become bitter and extremely agitated when the game doesn't live up to their personal vision. The problem when they go off on their tirades is exactly this - it infects and spreads and brings down the overall community. Its self serving to vent in a spiteful, angry, and entitled manner. It does nothing to build up the community and does more to tear it down. If you are disenfrancised with some facet of the game, formulate a constructive post with logic and reason. Passion for a game its great, but does not give you permission to forgo some general tact. Just have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt. I think it all boils down to passion and community participation giving way to unrealistic entitlement. As people invest more time in a hobby, they can begin to think that the community/company owes them in some regard. It gives way to unrealistic expectations and unfortunately often ends up with explosions of anger. I hate to say its a simple case of nerd rage, but it really is an all to frequent occurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 To be fair, it's not just the people who are expressing their desire for info on a given model/faction/whatever, but also how people are dealing with them in turn. Not every request for info or point of polite constructive criticism is indicative of entitlement, and while Wyrd doesn't owe you or me or anybody anything, as a business they do have a vested interest in maintaining the customer/service provider relationship to the best of their ability, and part of that can include listening and responding to said constructive criticism. Those who have been vulgar, impolite and who have blown issues out of proportion have certainly reared their heads, but at the same time there has been plenty of people leaping (verbally) upon anyone who has been anything but overwhelmingly positive about the whole experience, and as incredible a job as they are doing, there will always be people who have legitimate complaints or concerns, and treating any voice of dissent like 'the enemy' does nothing but further bog down the very community attitude, tone and general vibe that is presumably being defended. Please note that I'm not accusing anyone here of anything, just trying to provide the view of someone who might well be considered among the more critical lately. Some of those critiques have been met with information and context that either made me realize I was being unreasonable or was oblivious to how things were elsewhere. Other issues weren't as cut and dry, and as noted in the blog post on this very matter, I provide constructive criticism because I do care. If I didn't, I wouldn't be up at 3am typing away a treatise about why I type (occasionally critical) treatises on the company/game/whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Maybe if more people took a pitching wedge and found a 5 inch diameter tree and swung at it as hard as they could to try to get the club to wrap around the trunk... Now here comes the hard part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucklemonkey Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 To be fair, it's not just the people who are expressing their desire for info on a given model/faction/whatever, but also how people are dealing with them in turn. Not every request for info or point of polite constructive criticism is indicative of entitlement, and while Wyrd doesn't owe you or me or anybody anything, as a business they do have a vested interest in maintaining the customer/service provider relationship to the best of their ability, and part of that can include listening and responding to said constructive criticism. Those who have been vulgar, impolite and who have blown issues out of proportion have certainly reared their heads, but at the same time there has been plenty of people leaping (verbally) upon anyone who has been anything but overwhelmingly positive about the whole experience, and as incredible a job as they are doing, there will always be people who have legitimate complaints or concerns, and treating any voice of dissent like 'the enemy' does nothing but further bog down the very community attitude, tone and general vibe that is presumably being defended. Please note that I'm not accusing anyone here of anything, just trying to provide the view of someone who might well be considered among the more critical lately. Some of those critiques have been met with information and context that either made me realize I was being unreasonable or was oblivious to how things were elsewhere. Other issues weren't as cut and dry, and as noted in the blog post on this very matter, I provide constructive criticism because I do care. If I didn't, I wouldn't be up at 3am typing away a treatise about why I type (occasionally critical) treatises on the company/game/whatever. I couldn't have put it any better so +1. The only additional point I would make is that those who do issue constructive criticism in a manner that is thought out and balanced do so because they want to see the game improve in any way possible. One of the huge plus points with Wyrd is their presence on these forums and as such it seems like a legitimate way to raise concerns. I am fairly sure that without these forums many concerns of the player base may never have been highlighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtank Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 People had expectations of what was coming at Gencon. Those expectations haven't/won't be met. They got mad. Most will agree it sucks, but Bad things happen. People complain about balance in every system. Doubly so when previews come out or a major shift in the meta is unveiled like Plastics and Ten Thunders. (I have been fairly vocal in my hatred of plastic, but if it's what is happening then there's no changing it, and at least it's not a major back pedal like a certain other company did, and sounds like it's been handled right unlike another company did...). The Privateer forums have this fun graphic...the "doom cycle". It applies. (just substitute "Wyrd" for mentions of "Privateer".) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Maybe if more people took a pitching wedge and found a 5 inch diameter tree and swung at it as hard as they could to try to get the club to wrap around the trunk... You can try dropping a sledge hammer on your finger. You'd be suprised how little you care about which models are and are not coming out when you have a finger full of stitches, pulsing pain and a bottle full of perscription vicodin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonook Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 People just get complacent with current standards of communication then cry foul when things don't reach that level for whatever reason. Anyone who's played a game released by Blizzard will know all about what it's like to be completely ignored by the company whose product you're using. Yet people expect that from Blizzard, and when things go wrong and they get no response a few people try to rouse a rabble but the majority of response is "Eh, it's Blizzard, what do you expect?" Unfortunately for a small company like Wyrd who do their best to engage their customers with news, updates and general answers to questions, they set a benchmark for that level of commitment. When, for whatever reason, that just can't happen, there'll always be people who cry foul. Just be thankful our beloved Malifaux isn't run by Blizzard or EA *shudder*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Eh all i can say is blizzard and gw no longer sell me products for that exact reason. Its ok to expect things from a company and tell them im not happy. If they wont listen my money talks. Not that i have a problem with wyrd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Man, if Blizzard was in charge of Malifaux, it'd be so beyond incredibly polished, plentifully available (except for the initial growing pains of release when 5 times as many people as expected got on board), and wouldn't be available until sometime around 2025. They do good work, but it's at their own pace, that's for sure. See also: Valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well, I'm firmly in the "it sucks" camp (resser here) but getting over it. Basically, the big fat gold nugget for me is the book which has all the juicy info, the models? I can wait for them, still have to paint up a lot of my crews so it's no real biggie. But yeah, one still does get a bit of a downer when we were expecting 70% and the production chain decided to take a dozy and there went the promise. I still really like the chaps at Wyrd and I definitely like their products and being realistic, I will know all my new toys in the next 5 days and in detail when I get the book, so my pouting is still basically having to wait a few more days for Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triblayne Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Imho rules and balance issues are what bring the drama that haunts the boards. I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion, it's less the issues that are being complained about, and more the people doing the whining and raging that are bringing people down. That's not to say that constructive criticism isn't good for the game and the community, but with all this nonsense recently with the "I'm quitting Malifaux and I want everyone to know about it" and the extreme reactions over all the GenCon stuff, it just serves to bring people down. We can express disappointment over something without being so bloody hateful and negative. I play a lot of different games from a lot of different companies and Wyrd is one of the better ones. They've earned my respect and I will continue to give it. Also, and this is a little off topic, but in terms of the GenCon stuff, Wyrd is, to my knowledge, the only company that offers their GenCon Exclusives simultaneously on their webstore AND at the con, and I think that's fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Man, if Blizzard was in charge of Malifaux, it'd be so beyond incredibly polished, plentifully available (except for the initial growing pains of release when 5 times as many people as expected got on board), and wouldn't be available until sometime around 2025. QFT... Their standard answer to "when is it coming out" is "when we think its ready". And they nail it... I *STILL* play SC2 when I get a chance. (My ELO is dirt now, though...) ---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ---------- Well, I'm firmly in the "it sucks" camp (resser here) but getting over it. Basically, the big fat gold nugget for me is the book which has all the juicy info, the models? I can wait for them, still have to paint up a lot of my crews so it's no real biggie. But yeah, one still does get a bit of a downer when we were expecting 70% and the production chain decided to take a dozy and there went the promise. I still really like the chaps at Wyrd and I definitely like their products and being realistic, I will know all my new toys in the next 5 days and in detail when I get the book, so my pouting is still basically having to wait a few more days for Christmas. Here is the thing though... Our models will still be in the book. I know that for myself, any tourneys that I run will ALWAYS allow proxies for unreleased models. And for friendly games do people really encounter others that do not allow proxies for unreleased models? Basically, as long as we all have the rules, I fail to see why the sky is falling if our models are not real yet unless they were somehow the linch-pin for a tournament that allowed no proxies sometime in the next 6 months... That having been said, "Can haz Armorz guy pleaz?" EDIT: As a household that is Rezzer + Smelly-Guild (Nearly all models for both factions, mind you) it IS a little bit of a bummer that short of embarking on a new faction(Which is unlikely at this time), that we will not be able to justify enough purchases to get free models... But I am not the sort to be mad that someone else managed to get something for free. Its not a "zero-sum" game where someone else getting some benefit is in some way detrimental to me. I am happy for people that get it and a bit sad I don't(Well, actually its my son that doesn't get it because I have no use for a smelly guild model), but certainly not MAD... Edited August 12, 2012 by Gruesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlanthotep Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Q That having been said, "Can haz Armorz guy pleaz?" Well it looks like he's going to be one of the earlier releases. http://www.thewarstore.com/product74596.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Sucks to give so much and have to feel that way. Take heart that there are many of us that truly appreciate all that you do. "Give so much"? They're a business. They make a product and try to encourage us to buy it. There's nothing wrong with that, but it involves very little giving. Promotions are done for one reason- to boost sales. Not because they like you or me. That's simple reality. They have a job to do and hopefully they do it well. They've made a good quality product, by and large, and so I hope they succeed in marketing it. The market could use more high quality games. But don't pretend that they're our buddies or self sacrificing. We're customers. Period. If you start regarding them as a business you may be less hurt when customers give feedback (which is not to say that some feedback can't be excessively angry or unduly harsh, obviously it can be and at times has). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 "Give so much"? They're a business. They make a product and try to encourage us to buy it. There's nothing wrong with that, but it involves very little giving. Promotions are done for one reason- to boost sales. Not because they like you or me. That's simple reality. They have a job to do and hopefully they do it well. They've made a good quality product, by and large, and so I hope they succeed in marketing it. The market could use more high quality games. But don't pretend that they're our buddies or self sacrificing. We're customers. Period. If you start regarding them as a business you may be less hurt when customers give feedback (which is not to say that some feedback can't be excessively angry or unduly harsh, obviously it can be and at times has). You may have a point there, but also remember, that for now, they are still a small business, and it has people working in it who love their games, and want to share it, and if they happen to want to share their game whilst getting some money to eat, who can blame them? (perhaps a little over the top but you see my point? it takes a lot of work from their end, and they want people to enjoy the results of their work as well as making a living from it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I look at them kind of like an FLGS. Sure, they want me to spend my money there. They're a business. But they also put a bit of extra effort into it to make the whole thing more pleasant and rewarding for the customer where they can. And they probably enjoy that a bit too. Makes the whole thing nicer for both sides if it's not just cold distant money for goods. And like an FLGS, stuff goes wrong, orders don't always come in, they plan stuff and have to cancel sometimes, and they make mistakes. Annoying, but bound to happen eventually no matter what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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