Mournafein Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hey everyone, I'm kind of looking for an extensive answer, I suppose, but I'm looking for how to paint glow effects (Similar to how the Death Marshall's open pine box looks). I have no idea how to fade one color into another effectively. Help from you guys that are experienced would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 There's two stages to painting OSL really (that being object sourced lighting for those that have a life rather than spending too much time painting, unlike me!) For the glowy thing itself, remember he key is to start with brighter colours in the recesses, and work outward to darker colours. This makes it look like the light is coming from inside it. The second bit is to make it cast a glow on other things, which I usually do by putting lots of very very thin layers of the same colour as the light on any surface it would cast light on. More layers are needed as you get closer to the source, and use the same colours you did for the light - darker for further away, then using more of the bright recess colour as you get closer. The real key is to do it using really really thin paints, and put small amouns on your brush so you can make it look blended just because there's so many very subtle stages to it. For the light that's touching other surfaces, you shut barely be able to see each layer when you do it, it's only by letting each one dry and using lots of the, that you build up the effect. So bright and often mostly white in the recesses and on stuff close to the glowing thing, and darker more intense colour as you get onto the raised bits and away from the glowing thing, fading the whole effect off as you get further away. That make sense? If not, I can always try for a diagram *grin* Might do some OSL in a painting guide some point soon as well if I can squeeze the time in and people would be interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournafein Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 That sounds pretty in-depth. Very nice. So is it easier with enamel paint or acrylic paint? Because they both thin quite differently. On another note, should I worry about the edges of the light of will the extremely thinned layers suffice, so long as I make the outward fade more apparent? How about an orange glow? Same deal with white in recesses? Also: I'd very much be interested in a painting guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Acrylic probably thins down easier, especially if you use something like glaze medium which keeps it thick but diluted the colour down. That way you can control the layers a bit easier. Otherwise, just use even less paint as you dont want it running! With orange, start with a pale yellow-orange, or even white if you want it really bright. But only a tiny area of white. Too much and it looks a bit odd. With regard to the edges, the thin layers should be ok for it. Areas with only one layer will basically be invisible, and as each successive one gets smaller as you add it, giving you the increased intensity of the effect close to the source, generally you'll barely see the join between lit and unlit. I'll pick out a model that wants some good OSL and see if I can get my paints out from under the mountain of boxes. In fact, I think I have a death marshall there somewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournafein Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I'm trying to paint a lava-type glow, by the way. I've got some bases with a little magma flow going on so I guess I'm looking for an intense light over a short distance, perhaps? Seeing a death marshal would be great. I recently bought the Dead Justice set, so that will be a wonderful example! Thanks, for your help, so far! For the white layer, would you say I want it closer to the source for intensity? So I want the light closest to be a little bit of an off color from the actual light because of the source being brighter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupusFerreus Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 That's some real good advice Mako. Any chance you have a model you can illustrate it on? For my Death Marshal, I actually started dark and moved in for the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I found my death Marshalls when I had a quick look, so I'll get out the kit and start prepping them for a little guide this weekend. May take a week or so to get them done though. If only I had the brutal effigy with his little lamp, that'd be quicker! But at least I'll have got some more stuff painted... I generally go along the fire principle, the hotter it gets the closer to white. Brightness works kind of the same way, since usually it's something being hot that causes the glow. Mystical stuff, well, any way round works just fine! The darkness of the bits in the coffin works nicely on him. For magma, I'd start with yellow, work down through orange to a deep red, and then go back with a tiny bit of white into the centre of the yellow bits. And as you say, keep the light over a short distance. Just use the red and orange on the nearby rocks, as the edges will be cooler so you won't have yellow near them typically. If in doubt, google images and copy one that looks like you want it to. That's what I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I like the simpler method of just drybrushing and washing (to blend back down if needed). It is loads faster and produces good enough results for tabletop (read as probably not going to win you a golden demon competition). That is the method I used here: The angle of the photo could be a bit better but you can easily see the effect on the street lamp. The only trick to it is to always start your drybrushing from the heaviest concentration of light (closest to the source of the light/glow effect) and then pull away from that (remembering not to go around surfaces, such as the backside of the street lamp in my example above). This makes it realy easy to control the effect. One last tip, Pastels are really the best colors to easily achieve this effect (look to the Games Workshop Dry Brush paint line for these) since they have a soft chalky look to them. Hopefully that helps a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 @OP - Mako's got the best advice there. Searching for the image of what you want is a great idea. Unless I know something extremely well I always do a little research first. Here are some pics of my Hordes Pyre Troll....I did an extensive search on lava pics before I painted him. Just click an image for a closer look. Here is also a pic of some Death Marshall's that I did before I had much OSL experience...I think the glow is nice, but I didn't project it onto the actual model where the light would have hit it. @ Mako - Even though I'm pretty well versed with how paint and color works, I always pick up something new from your tutorials so I would welcome that as well. I actually linked your Color Theory one to my LGS forum so my local guys would see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Really? Awesome, I'll end up with a reputation at this rate! Good to hear I'm being useful *wink* It is definitely worth mentioning though, omenbringer is right, the method I use takes time and patience. Lots of it. I've had to use over 50 layers once before... Gives you gorgeous control and looks epic though. Once your eyes stop watering long enough to look! Edit: and that, dgraz, is a stunning example of the bright centre making it look really glowy! Lucky someone had one lying about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournafein Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Mako: Incredible advice, it seems. I'll use it as soon as my new paint set comes in. I'm looking forward to giving it a shot. How big should my layers be? I know very thin, but are we talking with a detail brush or a highlight brush? Dgraz: Very impressive death marshals! How do you do all of the shading!? And do you use the same method that Mako mentioned to do the glowing of the pine box!? I really hope I can attain that level of impressive detail! Do you use a slightly darker shade of green over the brighter green? Do you use the same method that Mako mentioned? If so, how do you manage that!? Many layers on all spots!? Omenbringer: I like the lamp post glow, but the model itself just far outshines it... How do you folks highlight so well!? Like the outlines seem to blend in so well! Thanks, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Omenbringer: I like the lamp post glow, but the model itself just far outshines it... How do you folks highlight so well!? Like the outlines seem to blend in so well! Thanks, everyone! Thankyou for the compliment. The biggest tip I can offer for clean highlighting is to really thin your paints. Though dont use regular water (which isn't great for thining), instead I would highly recommend a mix of Flow Improver, Matte Medium and Gloss Medium (3:1:1). You can get these in really large quantities from Liquitex or Windsor and Newton for fairly cheap. The consistency you are looking for is similar to skim milk (Opaque but just barely). Sort of off topic but for creating ghostly models easily/quickly, start from a white primer then "stain" the primer with the desired color in successive coats (Turqouise and bright yellowish/greens work pretty well) allowing the stain to pool in the folds and crevices. Note this is not completely how I did the Bete pictured earlier but the technique was used for the initial layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Shucks. Thanks guys. I use a similar technique as Mako suggested - which is why I said he had the best advice He however is, I think, much more insane than I am. I don't have the patience to do more than 5 or 6 layers most of the time. Even that is a lot of work. I do use progressively darker colors. For those DM's, I believe I started with white. Then I added a little yellowish-green to the white, did a layer. Then a layer of the yellowish-green. Then mixed a darker green with the yellowish-green and did a layer. Then a layer of that darker green. Now, I kinda feather the edges as I go, but at this point you should be able to see the edges of the different colors. Then I took the yellowish-green, extremely thinned, and washed the entire thing - that hides the edges. After letting it dry, if the edges are still too pronounced, I wash it again....if you have properly thinned your paints, it shouldn't take more than two washes to make it look decent. The most important part is to thin your paints...as Mako said. There is no way to really explain how much to thin them...you just need to experiment and practice a bit to figure it out. You should be able to see the color that you're painting over....by gradually building layers that way, you blend the colors together. As far as the shading goes; I started as more of a pencil artist. As such I did a gazillion pictures from real life including lots of still life with different types of lighting. So I have a solid grasp on how light hits a surface and the shadows it creates. A neat trick to help you see this is to prime your model....I personally use a neutral grey. Then put a bright light on it where you want the light to hit and take a picture of it. Refer back to the pic as needed so you don't lose where your shadows go. I paint all models I'm going to be playing with as if it is high noon...that way when they are all together they look the same. For personal reasons I haven't painted anything for quite some time and I know that GW changed all their colors (and when I start again I'll be switching to Vallejo) so the names are probably all different, but I'll tell you what I did at the time....I'll explain the coats. Started with Scorched Brown base. Then a layer of Bestial brown...leaving a bit of the Scorced exposes in the darkest recesses. Than a layer of Snakebite Leather (this is the color you see the most of here)...again leaving a bit of the Bestial. Then a small bit Bleached Bone for highlight and a tiny bit of pure white for the most extreme highlights...like a dot or a hair thin line. Now take Snakebite Leather and thin extremely...then wash the entire coat as explained with the glow above, drawing all of the colors together. That's it. 5 colors right out of the bottle (but thinned). Not too crazy but it has a nice look on the table. When I strive for something really nice, I will double or triple the number of layers but this 5 or 6 layers with a unifying wash is a pretty nice tabletop version. It's mostly practice, practice, practice...the stuff I did when I first started....wow, bad. 10 years later with a couple hundred models down I'm okay now. But there are quite a few people on these forums that make me look like an amateur. Mako, Ratty, Popgoestheworld, brushmistress (who does most of the Wyrd studio work) and finally Eric Johns himself (one of the creators of Malifaux)...his stuff is epic. Do a search on coolminiornot for EricJ and check out his Ramos for some of the best OSL I've ever seen. Hope this helps. Good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 A neat trick to help you see this is to prime your model....I personally use a neutral grey. Then put a bright light on it where you want the light to hit and take a picture of it. Refer back to the pic as needed so you don't lose where your shadows go. I paint all models I'm going to be playing with as if it is high noon...that way when they are all together they look the same. It's mostly practice, practice, practice...the stuff I did when I first started....wow, bad. 10 years later with a couple hundred models down I'm okay now. But there are quite a few people on these forums that make me look like an amateur. Mako, Ratty, Popgoestheworld, brushmistress (who does most of the Wyrd studio work) and finally Eric Johns himself (one of the creators of Malifaux)...his stuff is epic. Do a search on coolminiornot for EricJ and check out his Ramos for some of the best OSL I've ever seen. That little trick is a brilliant one, and I really recommend it to everyone if they're trying to figure out how light behaves. There's quite a few people I here whose stuff I look at and wish I'd thought of it or wonder how they did it. That list above is a good start, but as I'm sure dgraz would tell you too, there's so many it's hard to remember them all! And Eric's Ramos is just gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonn Agram Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Those are all great advice! what I first thought of when I read you were interested in Lava like OSL was - GW's Balrog. I googled it for some images (as I believe pics are worth a thousand words) and these came up: so, I guess you follow the advice the guys wrote with those pics in mind and you can't go wrong... funny thing I also noticed: the GW studio painted Balrog has an inverted fire-paintscheme -> the fire is white on the outside and dark red on the inside. ridiculous... As Mako stated it the hottest stuff is white - that's got something to do with the wavelengths of the light/colour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) ...funny thing I also noticed: the GW studio painted Balrog has an inverted fire-paintscheme -> the fire is white on the outside and dark red on the inside. ridiculous... As Mako stated it the hottest stuff is white - that's got something to do with the wavelengths of the light/colour... Have to disagree with you here, the Balrogs paint scheme is correct. Where the flame is most intense (roiling out of the cracks in his flesh) the light would be the brightest and then deepen toward yellow, orange then again toward red (even "sooty" black) as it moved toward the tips of the flame. Using this photo of a camp fire at night as a reference it shows how the flame should look (the logs standing in for the cracked skin). If you are talking about the extremities of the Balrog, then think about how real lava acts, the further from the heat source the cooler it will appear. Edited July 6, 2012 by Omenbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Nah, that isn't the GW studio one. It's one that's been done properly. If you look on their site, he's right - they fade from dark red in the cracks, towards white at the flame tips. It looks very odd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Nah, that isn't the GW studio one. It's one that's been done properly. If you look on their site, he's right - they fade from dark red in the cracks, towards white at the flame tips. It looks very odd... Ah now that does make a difference. Yes I agree the Games Work Shop studio image here is definately wrong (sort of like the one Privateer posted of Epic Feora's Base). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 It's kind of worrying how many people who paint professionally do it the wrong way round. Although I guess it doesn't always look too bad, the whole tiny scale and sculpted detail do lend themselves to it. I still do a double take when I see it though, it just doesn't look alive and burning to me! Of course, once you get on to magical stuff, eldritch glows, and all that, the rules pretty much go out the window anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournafein Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Gentlemen: You guys are extraordinary! Thank you so much for all of your help, thus far. Mako, if you've got some death marshals lying around, I'd love to see them. From what I've gathered so far, I need to be much more patient when I paint. I like the models do much I just want to paint them and use them, ASAP! Damn you weird for your great models! I just ordered 5 crews on the 3rd, so hopefully we'll see some improvement on my painting prowess on the Viks, Lady J, 'Dita, Criid, and Lucius. Any tips on shading clothing? I usually just paint clothes one color and ink wash it, but now I'm definitely thinking I need to do more washing and thinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 From a paint and wash process, the next step is to paint shadow, midtone and highlight. I usually start with the midtone! Paint the shade into the recesses, then neaten up the midtone and then highlight. Basically, you can just start adding in more and more layers of paint to things to increase the contrast. Then use the wash again to enhance the effect, if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournafein Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I see like... White highlights on dark clothing. It seems really difficult to get that perfected. Is that done the same way? Could you explain to me what the difference is between those three? I'm not even sure I know what midtone is. Please forgive my ignorance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarlockFiretop Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Huh. I've been looking at my Thor Steinhammer's blowtorch flame for months, and I couldn't understand what was wrong it it. I've just realised that I based it in red, and worked up orange and yellow highlights. You're right, I should have done it the other way round! I could just turn the flame upside down and make it an orange soda cannon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I see like... White highlights on dark clothing. It seems really difficult to get that perfected. Is that done the same way? Could you explain to me what the difference is between those three? I'm not even sure I know what midtone is. Please forgive my ignorance! No problem! The midtone is the colour you want it to look like overall, and the one that's it's between the shadows and highlights in both brightness and actual physical place on the model. So if you want to paint something blue, I typically pick one I like and paint the whole area that. Then, I use a darker colour (often by adding black into the colour I just used), and paint that only into the recesses and where the shadows would be. Because i use very dilute paint, i often need to pit eo or three coats on, with each one covering less area so i make the shadows niceand dark in the deepest areas. Since I'm a messy painter, I often go back over quickly with the original colour (midtone) where I don't want shadows to be, then I add a little white or cream to that colour and paint thin layers onto the highlights, again working with more white and smaller areas each time to build it up. A lot of people find it easier to paint the darkest colour first, then the middle one on (avoiding the areas you want shadow), then the highlight one on the brightest bits. Saves going back over areas and trying to aim paint into the hard to reach bits! When I started painting, I did base colour and then wash too, which is midtone than a shading wash. Then I did base colour, a highlight, and wash. Then I went on to a shadow colour, then the main colour, then highlight. And from there, it was just adding more and more layers getting thinner and thinner, and with less difference between them. Eventually you get a lovely effect, but it takes a ton of practice! Hope that helps, feel free to holler if I'm making no sense, it's rather early morning here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 A lot of people find it easier to paint the darkest colour first, then the middle one on (avoiding the areas you want shadow), then the highlight one on the brightest bits. Saves going back over areas and trying to aim paint into the hard to reach bits! That's what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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