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What's the best 'pound for pound' model in the game


Barnaberible

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Hi guys n gals

Thought it would be fun to get a poll going to decide the best value for soulstone model in the game.

Is it the mighty von schill, the swift moving coryphee or the lowly canine remains?

Put your nominations below with the soulstone cost (or combined cost if they work in a pair) and a brief description of why you nominating them and we'll get a poll going to decide the best of the best

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Tough one for me. I find it difficult to narrow more than a top 5 and all for different reasons:

1. The 14-point model known as Lelu-Lilitu (Straight up value on all fronts)

2. Convict Gunslinger (So much hurt, so little cost)

3. Rotten Belle (So much utility for the points even when facing all Immune to Influence models)

4. Grave Spirit (1 point, Brings a crow to casting, pretty durable (Except to blasts))

5. Watcher (3 Point significant, immune to influence flying awesomeness and worth THRICE his points if you happen to face aSeamus)

Those are my "bangs for the bucks"

Honorable Mention for Canine Remains when they run in large packs...

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Of the models I own I have found the witchling stalkers to be quite nice. They hit very hard for a 4 point model and they give casters a fit (see most models).

Of the models I have played against the stitched togethers have frustrated me too much for a 4 point model.

Maybe because they're 5 point models? ;)

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Like many others I'd say best bet is probably rotten belle. It does a little bit of everything, and a few of those things it does superbly well. And its only 4ss.

I think its probably best to break it down by faction tho.

rotten belle for ressers

austringer for guild

convict gunslinger for outcast

...well, those are the only factions I really know all that well

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Voodoo doll - Unlimited range ignores los casting AND gives poison 2

The twins - as stated above

Night terrors - Fast movement and 3 ss significant

The watcher - Makes terror/anethema go away and 3 ss significant

Puking snake - only 2 ss, adds a card to your hand and has a 5 cast with 2(!?!) suits build in

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Jack Daw. At 9 Soulstoness, he comes with his own Scheme, is very difficult to harm, packs an offensive punch, prevents opponents from cheating or soulstoning nearby, and doesn't afraid of anything. Well, 10 if you're out of faction, but still...

I see you ridin' 'round town with the girl I love, and I'm like, "JACK DAW!"

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1)Stitched (5SS) Good utility, Good Damage output, difficult to get rid without devoting unusually high resources and yet cheap enough that you can spam them which keeps them expendable.

2) Grave Spirit (1SS) There is never a reason to not hire this guy in a Nicodem crew. At the cost of one SS, if his armor bonus is used once in a game on a master he has paid for himself by not having to use an equivalent prevention flip. Prevent 4 damage and he’s doubled the investment. No need to even mention the decent cast with a crow and an extra activation.

3) Avatar Ramos (2SS) Take your slow, low damage, defensive Master and strap a jet pack, lawn mower blade and assembly line to him. POOF!!! You have Avatar Ramos. All for the low cost of 2SS

4) Twins (14SS) I know they aren’t one model but face it, saying they aren’t one model is the same as saying Dreamer and LCB are separate. They bring crazy high damage output, crazy board control, have almost every special rule between them and have the potential to bring themselves back if you kill one.

5) VonSchill (9 - 10SS) At times it feel like Resser players choose their crews as such... Choose Faction, Determine Strategy. Hire VonSchill, Choose Master, Choose Crew... I also think Resser players would still hire him even if he had Elite Mercenary and cost 11SS. That should say something about how much of a value this guy is.

6) Crookedmen (4SS) I know everyone is head over heels for the Belles but I seriously think these guys are MONEY. The ability to paralyze an enemy model at the cost of 4SS is fantastic. Add in a shooting ability with blasts and an area denial spell and you have an excellent utility piece.

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I guess it depends on your definition of "pound for pound".

There are a lot of really good suggestions here, but I would like to propose we narrow the field a bit.

Initially, it would be easy to point out a model and say "this one right here" but oftentimes when we do so, we take some things into consideration that we really shouldn't. Like I'll use the Duet for an example. Now I'm a HUGE fan of the Duet. For me, pound for pound there simply isn't a better model in the game. Can hit hard several different ways, can move like it's ass is on fire, can capture objectives all in an attractive 14 point package.

But should we consider it as one of the best models in the game?

I would actually hesitate here. The Duet is nice and powerful, yes, but part of that power stems from working in a Colette crew. If we roll the Duet in another crew, cross-faction or not, do we get the same "pound for pound" value? Obviously not. This is because the Duet works so in sync with a Colette crew that running the Duet with anyone else will obviously lower it's power level. That's not to say it isn't still a potent piece... quite the contrary. But to crown it the best overall is foolhardy when you consider you need to roll a specific crew to get the most out of it.

Additionally, I feel we should not include Masters or Henchmen in this discussion, as they are not as universal in their ability to play with any master or faction (save VonBadass, but he's the Malifaux version of Boba Fett).

My list (in no particular order) is considerably shorter, and includes some diamond in the rough models you might not have thought about. But their value is often over and above what you pay for them, and while they might not be an auto-include, their value puts them on the short list of stuff you ARE considering.

1. Gunsmith

Pound for pound, nothing is as good as the gunsmith for Arcanist players. Offensively, it sports the ability to do a solid damage profile at range, a profile that gets even better with experimental ammo. Combined with it's gunfighter ability, just dropping something into base contact isn't enough to make these pesky models go away. When you include the fact they can change their ammo type to tailor their attacks to be the most effective, their damage profile is even more impressive. And to top all this offensive power off - paired pistols to help make the attacks stick. Defensively they are just as solid. While they aren't designed to stand toe-to-toe to anything, they have a wide array of defensive options with Concealed Pistol, Intimidating, and Duty. Even smoldering heart is a nice addition, allowing the gunsmith to easily convert defense to offence with The Hard Way. This makes for a pretty impressive model, but when you combine all of those abilities for a mere 6 points its a goddamn steal.

2. Ronin

Ah, Ronin. My love affair with you continues. A very balanced model with a very small 5 SS cost. The ability to move and strike is an impressive yet often overlooked ability. What is even more impressive is the 2" melee range, a weapon that overlooks armor and gets a :+fate to damage and oh yeah, a free push. Are you kidding? What could be better? Well how about more attacks? (+1) Melee Expert? Hell yes. A solid damage profile, a ranged weapon for when you just can't close means this 5 point model is an effective offensive powerhouse. When you consider that defensively you have a (1) action to increase your defense, harmless, and hard to kill it is even better. And let's not forget how mobile this model is. 4 walk/6 charge, ignores severe and climb penalties when walking and charging, and did I mention a free 4" push? Even better, if you have one on your crew, and you suddenly find yourself outmanned, you can hire another one in the middle of the fight with it's Always for Hire ability. If they disappoint you, you can force them to commit ritualistic suicide and get 2 SS in change. Not bad! And did I mention they were Mercenaries? That's right, you don't have to be playing outcast to enjoy this model, which makes it impressive across all factions that need a bit more mobility.

3. Miss Demeanor / Convict Gunslinger

Someone mentioned this one before. A solid merc model that is a great ranged artillery battery for anyone not playing Arcanists (cause they have the Gunsmiths above). Great range, gunfighter, paired pistols, and you'll not do more damage with a model for this few SS then you will with the Gunslinger if you have a handful of :masks to burn. Even the Gunslinger's spell is pretty good if you have the ability to make it stick. A solid 5 SS model that is worth it's weight in the dead corpse tokens your opponent leaves when its done activating.

4. Rotten Belle

Board control is a huge advantage for anyone who wins this game. Ask any Colette player. And for those of you Rezzers out there, it doesn't get more effective or cheaper then the lowly Rotten Belle. Hard to wound, slow to die, and an impressive range of control oriented effects helps you control the flow of the game by directly disrupting your opponent. Need to get that central evidence token but can't cause your opponent has parked something nasty on top of it? Lure it out of the way. Need to damage the cart but can't cause he's got that one guy in melee? Lure him away. Combined with a ranged slow and an ability to drop defenses, unless you are Kirai you'll wonder why you ever left dem Zombie teats on the sidelines before.

Bonus Pick - Lawyer

What? Lawyer? Are you kidding me? No man. I'm not. Go ahead and laugh. I'm not about to give all the tricks away, but if you even play a guy who knows how to get the most out of this model, its going to be a very, very frustrating day for you. And if you are a Colette or Gremlin player, you learn you have to kill this guy fast. While I don't actually include him in the best "pound for pound" picks (he's a bit expensive and slow of foot) he's got enough potential that if you learn how to use him right, he can actually win you games. Or at the very least, disrupt your opponent enough to allow you to win.

(the first post disappeared into the aether, so I hope I'm not double posting)

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Bonus Pick - Lawyer

What? Lawyer? Are you kidding me? No man. I'm not. Go ahead and laugh. I'm not about to give all the tricks away, but if you even play a guy who knows how to get the most out of this model, its going to be a very, very frustrating day for you. And if you are a Colette or Gremlin player, you learn you have to kill this guy fast. While I don't actually include him in the best "pound for pound" picks (he's a bit expensive and slow of foot) he's got enough potential that if you learn how to use him right, he can actually win you games. Or at the very least, disrupt your opponent enough to allow you to win.

(the first post disappeared into the aether, so I hope I'm not double posting)

dude, now I'm curious... how about a short write up on how he's a great minion?

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Thanks guys, good suggestions all round so far.

I'll leave this thred running and I think on Monday I will open a poll so people can vole for their fave. I wll be picking the most nominated 2 models from each faction (from this post and pms) or if someone has put a great case for their choice I may include that.

Masters and Totems will not be included but henchman will (as the can, generally, be hired throughout the faction)

May the best man/woman/monster/robot win

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1)Stitched (5SS) Good utility, Good Damage output, difficult to get rid without devoting unusually high resources and yet cheap enough that you can spam them which keeps them expendable.

2) Grave Spirit (1SS) There is never a reason to not hire this guy in a Nicodem crew. At the cost of one SS, if his armor bonus is used once in a game on a master he has paid for himself by not having to use an equivalent prevention flip. Prevent 4 damage and he’s doubled the investment. No need to even mention the decent cast with a crow and an extra activation.

3) Avatar Ramos (2SS) Take your slow, low damage, defensive Master and strap a jet pack, lawn mower blade and assembly line to him. POOF!!! You have Avatar Ramos. All for the low cost of 2SS

4) Twins (14SS) I know they aren’t one model but face it, saying they aren’t one model is the same as saying Dreamer and LCB are separate. They bring crazy high damage output, crazy board control, have almost every special rule between them and have the potential to bring themselves back if you kill one.

5) VonSchill (9 - 10SS) At times it feel like Resser players choose their crews as such... Choose Faction, Determine Strategy. Hire VonSchill, Choose Master, Choose Crew... I also think Resser players would still hire him even if he had Elite Mercenary and cost 11SS. That should say something about how much of a value this guy is.

6) Crookedmen (4SS) I know everyone is head over heels for the Belles but I seriously think these guys are MONEY. The ability to paralyze an enemy model at the cost of 4SS is fantastic. Add in a shooting ability with blasts and an area denial spell and you have an excellent utility piece.

This, plus the Watcher. ( 3 SS). A significant model, that can fly 6 inches is very valuable for the guild that is in general quite slow. A 3 SS model that can fly around grabbing objectives for the Guild, can shoot at a target and remove cover or terrifying, or deck manipulation in the form of the forewarned action (which is my favorite part of the model)

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Simply because they require a master to operate so I dont think they should be considered stand alone models. Sure the grave spirit is arguable the best value model in the game at 1 ss but it isnt a stand alone piece.

By that logic all models require a master to be hired so are technically not stand alone either. Also you never said anything about the model being stand alone. As a matter of fact you stated in the OP that you could include more that one model if they were designed to work together which certainly isnt stand alone. But hey, whatever you want to do. Its your poll.

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  • 2 weeks later...

1) Collodi = Best mobility / Objective Grabber in the game

2) Grave Spirit = Armor for the best Undead model you have AND the ability to cast the connected Master / Henchmen's spells for 1 measly SS

3) Coppelius = Paralyze by CB vs DF is enormous when you take into account how many people can actually stop it. Add to this the ability to summon models, create Morale Duels AND when/if he dies the culprit takes 4 wounds (the average wounds per model is 6)

4) Von Schill = point for point the most survivable model in the game. What other model has Armor, Magic Resist, Immunity to Blast and Damage Auras, Slow to die + Use Soulstone, the ability to leave Combat AND Flight? The only thing that would give him more survivability is making him a Spirit ( I'm looking at you Ressers)

5) Niño Ortega = The BEST Sniper in the game. When not even the ability to SEE through solid objects can beat you at the range game, you know you are doing something right.

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1) marionettes, anyone who has played with or agains collodi (or attended the team GT :P ) can tell you ho amazingthese guys are for 2SS, 5 paired attacks with a slow trigger is rediculous

2)Twins nuff said

3)Grave spirit, dont us him myself as i use McMourning and kirai, but for can be amzing on some models (dead rider anyone?) the crow on the cast at 1SS is incredably usefull in a rezzer crew

4) Sebastian, in my opinion the most underrated model in the game, 6SS for a HTW1 (wd model with a nice damage arc, handing out healing flips (in a rezzer crew as well) and has brutal magical pulse damage makes an all round awesome model

5) (my 'surprise' pick) Francisco Ortega, I am the first to admit he is squishy as all hell but his damage in combat is awesome, consider companion obey and flurry you have a model wich can get where he needs to be and lay on 3 cb7 attacks with reflips and baked in critical strike. he is hard to use well but if you can get him to work he will lay the smackdown on your opponent.

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  • 3 months later...

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