poulpox Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 Hello there! Had a game using SnowStorm against Ophelia, and I discovered her Right Between the Eyes spell has no gun icon, so no cover, no bullet-proof, with triple positive flip on damage from a model using ss, is this right? The book even says no rst! (although I think the card says rst: Df as might mate said to flip for Df, but there's nothing about it on the errata). All that from 10" away? One attack caused a 5 Dg -> 5 Wd to SnowStorm, and she can do it 3 times with Reckless? Is Ophelia the ultimate spirit hunter?? O_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 I believe it was a misprint in the book and was clarified that there was indeed a Df resist. And yes she is the ultimate hunter........not just for spirits. Also remember that she can take 3 of her totems that can also cast that spell (with SS if needed). I'd sacrifice run a couple of them to reliably kill just about any model in the game. It's OP in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpox Posted May 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 It does feel... hmmm... nasty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 You'd rather cast a spell with a straight 4 to do up to five damage rather than a paired 6 to do up to 8? Spirits and HTW 2 are the only time I use this ability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 I use Right Between the Eyes with my Youngins all the time. They can use a ss if you want to make sure it hits and saves Ophelia the activation. The Youngins are very nasty even without this spell, see Reckless and Dumb Luck on a 2/3/4 gun, if you ignore them. That is why I believe Ophelia is a serious Henchman that is up there with some of the toughest masters. As far as being OP, well 3 wounds and a Meh def, though they are Tiny, leads them to being a one shot wonder before they get killed. They are dead if they are engaged and any blast will kill them if they get caught in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 You'd rather cast a spell with a straight 4 to do up to five damage rather than a paired 6 to do up to 8? Spirits and HTW 2 are the only time I use this ability... I don't think I've ever used that spell with Ophelia...the Young LaCroix however are another story =D. Even against HtW2 I don't see a situation where I need to cast it with her. Most HtW models have a low defense, so I know with paired Cb6 I'm gunna hit and with a trigger that doubles the damage output. IMHO the bane of HtW are models that have high weak damage. Spirits yes, I can see where you may spend actions with Ophelia to cast it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) I don't think I've ever used that spell with Ophelia...the Young LaCroix however are another story =D. Even against HtW2 I don't see a situation where I need to cast it with her. Most HtW models have a low defense, so I know with paired Cb6 I'm gunna hit and with a trigger that doubles the damage output. IMHO the bane of HtW are models that have high weak damage. Spirits yes, I can see where you may spend actions with Ophelia to cast it.There is one other time I will cast it with her, when I kill my first target and my second is just outside of 8". (Those situations where one model is behind another.) It happens like every other game with her when I 'know' my target is just out of my guns reach. Edited May 19, 2012 by Murphy'sLawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpox Posted May 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 You'd rather cast a spell with a straight 4 to do up to five damage rather than a paired 6 to do up to 8? Spirits and HTW 2 are the only time I use this ability... Well, I'm particularly talking of SnowStorm vs Ophelia here, and with his spirit, bulletproof 3 and auto-soft cover, range attacks are harder to pull. Ophelia has great ease to pop such a tough 11ss model in 2-3 APs, she is mos def a bigger threat than I anticipated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I love that spell. Especially against a Kirai crew. Her and 3 young do more dmaage than the rest of my crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I believe it was a misprint in the book and was clarified that there was indeed a Df resist. And yes she is the ultimate hunter........not just for spirits. Also remember that she can take 3 of her totems that can also cast that spell (with SS if needed). I'd sacrifice run a couple of them to reliably kill just about any model in the game. It's OP in my opinion. Overpowered? Really? When the only time you would be able to have three Young LaCroix would be in an Ophelia led crew? Which doesn't have an over abundance of magical attacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't care about the magical part. It's the 2ss ignore cover, shoot into or out of melee, 22" GUN that can use a soulstone to hit and has enough bonuses to reliably cause 5 damage. Oh, and they're Tiny so you can't really kill them at range....there really isn't any reliable defense. So, yeah I think that's OP. I would gladly sacrifice 4ss worth of models to kill an 8-10ss enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I don't care about the magical part. It's the 2ss ignore cover, shoot into or out of melee, 22" GUN that can use a soulstone to hit and has enough bonuses to reliably cause 5 damage. Oh, and they're Tiny so you can't really kill them at range....there really isn't any reliable defense. So, yeah I think that's OP. I would gladly sacrifice 4ss worth of models to kill an 8-10ss enemy. I acknowledge they have their advantages, but there as some weaknesses. Yes you can use a SS, but if you use it on every attack you run out very quickly. You need a relatively high card to make the attack work, so I usually focus the attack since it limited to once per turn. Ca of 4 is not that hard to block if you don't use a SS on attack. They are insignificant, which doesn't sound like much but considering gremlins have a 2 SS significant model there are time you need to remove a few for bayou. Lastly as totems if you can take out Ophelia you lose them all. With 3 Wds they are relatively easy to take out. lastly Witching stalkers eat them for breakfast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) CannonFodder is right with his assessment. If you experience one of your high ss models being killed by one your first thought will be OP. But if you look at them closely they have major flaws. There are alot of models in the game that at first glance appear to be OP becuase of the 'potential' they have if ignored and the cards flip right. But most of the time they do ok. In my experience I get good use out of one of my Youngins while the other two get wiped out before doing any real damage. So that is 6ss to get one good attack to make back their ss. It tends to be a fair exchange. In Gremlin lists it is either your model does amazing at taking a more expensive model out in a blaze of glory, or they die silently without doing anything. That's why they come cheap. Edited May 20, 2012 by Murphy'sLawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 your first thought will be OP. But if you look at them closely they have major flaws. Pardon me. Please don't assume that I haven't done my homework. It is well beyond my first thought, and I have looked at them closely, individually and how they interact with the rest of the crew. It is my opinion that it is OP. I feel that it would still be good but not OP if the spell just had the . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Pardon me. Please don't assume that I haven't done my homework. It is well beyond my first thought, and I have looked at them closely, individually and how they interact with the rest of the crew. It is my opinion that it is OP. I feel that it would still be good but not OP if the spell just had the .Did not mean to offend. I have no clue if you have played Ophelia's crew often or if you just faced it once or twice and made an opinion off of that. (It's not uncommon for people to post opinions based on theory-machine alone.) I was just backing and agreeing with CannonFodder. I have been playing Ophelia since her GenCon release and proxying in the slophualers and Youngins for about as long. So I am also just giving my opinion from my experience on the table. In the end though we are both just giving our opinions which doesn't mean the end of the world for either of us. Sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention.*candy* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Having used it a lot, much to my opponents chagrin - It probably wouldn't hurt to give it a icon, but with the caveat that it can still be used with gunfighter. But at this point that is probably a bit of hairsplitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Having used it a lot, much to my opponents chagrin - It probably wouldn't hurt to give it a icon, but with the caveat that it can still be used with gunfighter. But at this point that is probably a bit of hairsplitting. Well I wouldn't cry or even think twice of they gave it a since I find it a small part, more of a novelty, that rarely comes up in my games. I am not wasting Ophelia's ss just to hit a target in cover. She really needs them for herself. When the cards flip right and you look at it on paper it looks awesome. But in reality it is just a decent ability on a solid 2 point model. Still not a power gamers choice. Ophelia using it is pointless unless she is shoting at spirits since she has paired pistols and a cb 6. She would not use that spell over her guns unless they are more than 8" away. The reason I see for it lacking a is becuase she has paired pistols, and they wanted to make act similar to her guns. So again this will rarely come up with Ophelia. Edited May 20, 2012 by Murphy'sLawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 No apologies are necessary. It is often very easy to have vastly different experiences when you also consider local meta. You see Right Between the Eyes as a novelty, I've seen it used to very good effect. (And apparently Guy in Suit uses it pretty well.) It's all just different experiences and exchanging opinions as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) I would venture to say that Ophelia and the Young Lacroix are a tad bit better than they were intended to be. My recommendation would be to change Right Between the Eyes to cause a Pistol Strike with an altered Damage line (1/ 2/ 5) and a :+fate on the damage flip, so that it was more in line with her other spells. And yes this would allow her (0) Bent Gun Barrel to affect it making it ignore Armor but this would also require another Casting flip and a reduction in range of 4. Edited May 22, 2012 by Omenbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 If we are chucking around Young LaCroix changes, can we use three all the time? Even with Somer? Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 If we are chucking around Young LaCroix changes, can we use three all the time? Even with Somer? Please? Why? He doesn't get enough mosquitoes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 If we are chucking around Young LaCroix changes, can we use three all the time? Even with Somer? Please? So are we thinking something like this? Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Som'er Teeth Jones -- 7 Pool 4 Giant Mosquitos [8ss] Ophelia Lacroix [8ss] 3 Young Lacroix [6ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss]Bayou Gremlin [2ss]Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Might be fun to play though I would miss my Piggies. Why? He doesn't get enough mosquitoes? Just to be clear Gremlin's never get enough. Just kidding, I definately don't think she should be able to take more than 1 Young'n when hired as a Henchman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Skeeters and Young Uns are used for different things. The one herds pigs around nad has the potential for damage dealing. The other just hits things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Skeeters and Young Uns are used for different things. The one herds pigs around nad has the potential for damage dealing. The other just hits things. I think you may have glossed over some important parts.....potential for damage dealing may be an understatement. Yes, the damage is low, but there is no resistance so it is a surefire way of finishing off wounded models. Especially those pesky HTK guys. But the main thing to me would be the card removal bit. No resistance again. So remove the opponent's hand, then the Youngin's don't even have to burn SS to kill people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 You can only have 3 Young Lacroix when she is LEADING the crew. When she is hired with Somer she can only take one. They can only be used in bulk in an Ophelia lead crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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