House rule: Nekima revised

[Sybaris]

Greetings,

Since the current rules for Nekima simply don't cut it for me, i've been tailoring a revision of the model's rules since a while. What's down there is my vision, of course, of what she should have looked like. I felt that the rules are underwhelming for the most ancient nephilim. This is just a house rule, i have no pretention of creating perfect things, but i believe others will want to try something different, especially if the expensive model is tasting dirt or serves as paperweight. It's is a long process and playtesting is needed, so any feedback is good, welcome and won't be taken offensively . That being said, i aimed at making Nekima a fighter/leader first, and support model second.

I see Nekima as a leader on the first line of battle, as pictured in the fluff, fighting her way to achieve what she wants. Unlike her cunning sister, she's more brutal and thinks of herself rather than the grand schemes of things, even if by her status and raw power, she does have influence over her younger kin. She can lead through fear mostly, and the respect her skill and might instill.

So this house rule make her stronger and tougher to some extent, while removing some of the "mother of monsters" and black blood shaman traits. Where not stated, the rules are not changed, while purple text is where the change is. This is the first version so things might change in the future...so here goes.

Nekima, The Dark Sibling(revision 1.4)

Henchwoman 3, Nephilim, Unique, Special forces (Ancient Nephilims) SS: 13

Wk/Cg 6/10

Ht 4

Wp 6

Ca 5

Df 5

Wd 12

Neverborn Greatsword

Rg 3

Cb 7

Dg 3/4/6

TALENTS:

Flight

Black Blood

Regenerate 1

Terrible beauty

Blood Sense

Enraged by insolence

Nurture Nephilim

Nephilim Princess

Armor 1

Animosity [Lilith]

Terrifying 13

Special Force leader (Ancient Nephilims) Crews led by this model may only hire Nephilims and Ancient Nephilims.

In the thick of it! (as per McCabe’s ability, here’s a resume: This model gains +1 df per enemy models it is engaged with after the first. So if engaged by 2 enemies, she gets +1, etc, up to +3 max.)

Weapon: Neverborn greatsword

Instinctual +1

Melee Expert +1

(0) Nephilim Heart

(0) Blood greed (inflict 4wd on friendly nephilim within 3”, this model receives 1 blood counter)

(0) Gorging on blood (discard 1 blood counter, this model makes a healing flip)

(2) Diving charge

Triggers:

(:masks :masks) Bloody fate

(:masks :tomes ) Like lambs to the slaughter (+1dmg per tome in attack flip)

(:masks :rams) Throw aside

(:masks :crows) Rip in half

---modifications---

1. Added Henchmen 3, and Special forces: Ancient Nephilim traits.

2. Added +1 to Ca and Df, making her slightly more resilient than a Mature (anyone who have seen her targeted on Ca knows why)

3. Added armor 1 to be more consistent with the race

4. Added Terrifying 13 to be more consistent with her race and Ht

5. Removed irresistible

6. Replaced Blood offering, growth spurt and spill black blood in return for Blood greed, Gorging on blood and Diving charge.

7.Replaced the trigger meat for the young with Like lambs to the slaughter (her own version of Brutal)

8. Increased damage on neverborn greatsword to be more on par with Mature nephilim - EDIT: reverted this change due to the Like lambs to the slaughter trigger giving enough additional dmg.

9. Added the Special Force Leader ability.

10. Added “In the thick of it” to increase survivability vs numerous attackers.

11. Added Animosity [Lilith] to be consistent with the fluff.

Thanks for reading by the way

Edited November 15, 2012 by Sybaris

[nilus]

Well first off to be consistent If you want her to be a Henchman then I would

1) Make her Special forces(Nephilim)

2) Restrict her hiring to just models with the Nephilim trait

All Henchman have very heavy hiring restrictions so she should not get off with a simple 1 stone addition for all other models because it breaks the standard. Also making her special forces means that you can't hire two Henchman in a Neverborn list.

[Sybaris]

I'd have no problem with that actually, so i edited that already. I was just not aware that we could simply tag Special forces: Nephilim on her. I was afraid that since Nephilim weren't a special force to begin with (special forces didn't exist per se in book 1), it would have repercutions on other masters wanting to hire nephilims.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Sybaris

[maxvonlaibach]

She doesn't look like she deserves the armor +1, I imagine that increasing her regen would've been more in character.

Making nephilim special forces would mean that only two can be hired, and that you're not allowed to take effigies/dolls in a list containing them. That's a huge cuddle.

Since she doesn't have any spells, she seems like a poor magician, therefore the low Ca should stay.

Irresistible is better than terrifying .

I'd change the critical strike to brutal. That way you still get a trigger for each suit.

Overall, I don't see the need to make Nekima more in-your-facey. There's youngs, matures, and lelus for that. If I were to change her rules, I'd just give her use soulstones and call it done.

[nilus]

Making nephilim special forces would mean that only two can be hired, and that you're not allowed to take effigies/dolls in a list containing them. That's a huge cuddle.

We didn't make Nephlim special forces. We just created a new Special forces group that only Nekima was the member of. Maybe should call it something other then Nephlim. Maybe Special Forces: Nephilim Elite

And restricting access to other special forces is the point. All the Henchman models have very limited hiring pools. Its part of how they are balanced.

[Sybaris]

I've called it "Special forces: Ancient Nephilim" for now, to make things clearer.

@ maxvonlaibach: Reason behind the +1 to Ca is that while she doesn't have spells, she isn't that dumb (at least no more than a mature), and also because some "spells" don't read to be magical incantations, they're just a type of action. Lastly, even if you don't have spells, you may need Ca because some enemy attacks or spells target that characteristic.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Sybaris

[maxvonlaibach]

I had a long, elaborate post about why sf doesn't work, but it got lost due to my retardation. Here's the gist of it:

henchmen only lead special forces, therefore you couldn't get away with simply making her the only member of the group; you'd have to add the characteristic to other nephilim, which may be a burden to some masters.

Moreover, given the ability to lead her own crew of nephilim, she would be unbalanced when compared to other henchmen, since not only is she worth 13 ss as compared to 8-10 of the others, she would also have access to a better and more versatile array of models (compare the number of nephilim to the number of dolls).

Now, what I would want from a 13 ss investment is an ability to survive the attention of a master for a turn or two, which is most surely guaranteed by the use soulstone ability. Therefore, instead of completely revisiting her rules, I would give her one of the following:

- use soulstones,

- the (0) action that showgirls have, which enables the use of soulstones for a turn, or

- the ability to use blood counters as soulstones.

I am leaning towards the third solution, since the first may be somewhat overly powerful, and the second would not always help her in defence flips, which I see as the most frequent use for her ss.

[Sybaris]

I guess our view of how the model should behave is different, so you likely won't find what you want here. At least, though, i think we both agree that there is something wrong in the current ruleset.

Current special force model range will broaden with time, so i don't think we can compare availability between henchmen at this time.

Personally, i want to get the model to perform in a certain way (gameplay), which is to lead scraps with nephilim, and much more "in the face", as you say, than Lilith for example. The rules to make that happen can be toyed with, as long as it works as intended.

Example of scrap:

35+2 ss

Nekima

Mature Nephilim (10)

Black Blood Shaman (6 iirc)

2 x Young Nephilim (12)

2 x terror tot Nephilim (6)

If anyone could playtest that, i'd be most grateful.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Sybaris

[maxvonlaibach]

Current special force model range will broaden with time, so i don't think we can compare availability between henchmen at this time.

Yes we can, because we still have some games to play before the next book comes out with all the juicy new special forces, and because when it does, the nephilim range is likely to expand as well.

Why are you so intent on making her another melee monster in a faction that's already full of melee monsters?

[nilus]

henchmen only lead special forces, therefore you couldn't get away with simply making her the only member of the group; you'd have to add the characteristic to other nephilim, which may be a burden to some masters.

Nope Henchman generally can only hire there own Special Forces and then a select group of other models. For example Lucius can hire Guild Hounds, Guild guards and Austringers because they have the Guardsman trait. So Nekima would just need an ability that says

When leading a crew Nekima may hire Special Forces: Ancient Nephilim and models with the Nephilim trait.

[ThePandaDirector]

Edit: Oh nilus... go eat poo =P

henchmen only lead special forces, therefore you couldn't get away with simply making her the only member of the group; you'd have to add the characteristic to other nephilim, which may be a burden to some masters.

Hi, I don't even really play Malifaux at the moment (have all the books though), but Henchmen aren't limited to Special forces, Special Forces are limited to Henchmen. Collodi can hire Special Forces: Doll, but can also hire Stitched Togethers because they're Dolls (but not Special Forces: Dolls and so not restricted to others). Molly can hire Belles without Belles getting tagged Special Forces: Horrors, etc. So with Nekima, if she were to be a Henchwoman, she could hire any Nephilim she wants without them getting tied to her, but new Nephilim could be created as Special Forces: Ancient Nephilim. As for balance, I imagine other SF would see more love considering the amount of Nephilim.

I don't really have an opinion on anything else, as I can understand the OP's reasoning, but don't like Neverborn enough to look more closely. I just wanted to point out that Nephilim wouldn't have to be burdened with SF if Nekima were to become a Henchwoman.

Have a nice day y'all.

[Sybaris]

Why are you so intent on making her another melee monster in a faction that's already full of melee monsters?

Because that's how i see her since i read the fluff. Granted we have little meat to chew on, but the current rules maker her work in an opposite direction during a game. In my vision, she has evolved to be the epitome of the Nephilim subgroup.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Sybaris

[ThePandaDirector]

Hypothetically, in a fluff powered sense (which Wyrd is prone to follow or ignore), Lilith and Nekima crews would be as follows:

Lilith: Mother of monsters, supports her crew and allows them to become stronger, has spells and synergy with the trickier Nephilim. She's still beatstick (from what I hear), but she's a Master afterall, and has more options.

Nekima: Lady Justice just grew horns (or Viktoria, but that's not as witty), and a crew would consist of little synergy beyond "hit stick over head" with Nekima fighting for the limelight and her less well supported crew acting as her support, rather than the other way round.

I can see it on a very theoretical sense, and part of me wants to see Nephilim crews fighting each other (that isn't Lilith versus Lilith), but it is pure theory and the kind of large change I don't see happening beyond the creation of a new Nekima (along with Samael and Misaki) or a new game mechanic (along with fluff advancement).

I'm beginning to remember why I stick to Puppet Wars playtesting, don't envy those chaps over in Malifaux

[ooshawn]

I say give her a henchmen reserve of the cost of a tot or young nephalim and use soulstone and its a rap. Best henchmen in the game for my tastes

[Sybaris]

The way I see it, there are two problems with Nekima atm.

a) she is too expensive for what she does

she performs as a support model

Alot of people would be satisfied with a solution to a), but for me it's more than that; the way the model is meant to act on the table is too far from what the story depicts. I certainly can deal with changes from fluff to gameplay, and i always seek for a balanced game too (i don't want Nekima to be more powerful than Lady J for example), but Malifaux isn't D&D miniatures, so the story matters to me, and when i look at Nekima's role on the table, i just thought i could give it a twist

[Q'iq'el]

I suggest not jumping into Henchmen grounds just yet. If you want it, sure, second step, but lets make her a minion that works first.

Besides some purely aesthetic problems with some of the names of the new abilities (how about Gorging on Blood rather than Gorging Bloodlust?), I suggest giving her some bonuses to hit with that sword of her.

She should be, at the very least, slightly better than a Mature Nephilim in combat (if we go for a combat master). So not only the slightly higher Cb, but also equivalent of Paired Claws would be recommended (enough to give her sword to hit).

I also suggest removing instinctual (it makes sense the player has to choose which of the 3 (0) actions he wants to use) and melee expert and give her a full fledged Fast.

[Sybaris]

I suggest not jumping into Henchmen grounds just yet. If you want it, sure, second step, but lets make her a minion that works first.

Besides some purely aesthetic problems with some of the names of the new abilities (how about Gorging on Blood rather than Gorging Bloodlust?), I suggest giving her some bonuses to hit with that sword of her.

She should be, at the very least, slightly better than a Mature Nephilim in combat (if we go for a combat master). So not only the slightly higher Cb, but also equivalent of Paired Claws would be recommended (enough to give her sword to hit).

I also suggest removing instinctual (it makes sense the player has to choose which of the 3 (0) actions he wants to use) and melee expert and give her a full fledged Fast.

I agree that the first step is to fix her fighting prowess, and then add in the henchwoman rule to allow for her crew. That said, i always have a problem when choosing a master with Nekima and her Nephilim. Lilith is pretty much out of the question, while the Dreamer has nothing to do with her, and Pandora probably isn't sane enough to care. The only one left is Zoraida, and she seems to be far more in league with Lilith (mentionning that Nekima is not easy to control).

The reason i kept instinctual and melee expert is to keep her slower than Lilith, and allow her to use 2 of her 0 actions in the middle of a tough situation (with instinctual, you can use blood greed and gorging on blood for 1 healing flip per turn, even though it would be quite costly on your crew). It's an indirect way to make her tougher and more "physical" than her sister.

Anyway, back to making her "Fighter First".

You mention a higher Cb, which would put her at 8. Currently, only aViktoria get as far as i know. They do mention that Nekima is a better fighter than Lilith in the text (try that on the table with current rules ! )...so it does give a hint.

About the to hit, i'd really like to playtest that with the new triggers, just to make sure it wouldn't be too strong (like, avatar strong).

Edited May 8, 2012 by Sybaris

[Sybaris]

I was toying around with a few variants (and the current rules card) and wondered if it could be as simple as giving her the Onslaught trigger (rather than throw aside)

Thanks to her sword, it's easier to trigger than for many models.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Auto Triggering Onslaught? I'm not certain about that. Not on a model with a great Cb score and a min dmg of 3 anyway.

[Ozz]

Not an auto trigger, it requires a Ram and a Mask, and the Great sword only grants 1 suit, so it is just a very likely trigger rather than auto. But i do think with the positive damage flip and such a decent damage profile it may be a bit extreme having a 50% chance for the trigger, but this shall not be me using it so i shall await your tests

[Sybaris]

Agreed, it might be strong, but then again, we're talking of a 13SS model.

We can find a trend in the "extreme" melee powers of the game. Lord Chompy Bits, Lady Justice, Killjoy... all of them get Onslaught. There's an equivalent for spellcasters too. All of them have good Cb ot Ca and some can even use soulstones

I see it as an alternative to a complete reboot of the card (which i still would prefer), but this simple switch of trigger might be just what Nekima needs in order to reach an acceptable efficiency.

[Fetid Strumpet]

While it is true that Chompy, Lady J, and Kill Joy all have access to Onslaught those models don't have access to a weapon that lets them add whatever suit they want to their Cb, thus the amount of Onslaught that gets triggered will be way lower than if Nekima got her hands on it. I think you should definitely try it, I'm not one to knock looking at upping under-powered models, although I personally don't think Nekima is bad, more that she just isn't as good as other options for her price. Certainly try it out and give your opinions on the matter after trying it. I just feel that a Cb 7, auto positive twist dmg flip, and min dmg 3 model dosen't need to also be given extra free attacks on 50%+ (because of the ability to cheat) of the time.

[Ozz]

Aye, as Fetid said the reason i said it may be over powered is the great sword combined with the picking any suit to go with it But i would be curious to hear what you and your friends think of it as well after you have tested it a few times ?

[Mournafein]

The only other 13ss model I am familiar with is Ashes and Dust... Or whatever it's called... And Nekima is not even remotely CLOSE to being anywhere near that model's sheer beastness.

[Sybaris]

That is correct, hence me looking at solutions so that we can actually play with the model without pulling hairs when it comes to using her effectively.

There is also Killjoy who costs 13ss when you sacrifice a desperate mercenary.

I'll come back to posts when i've ran some tests, but keep in mind that even with onslaught, she still melts in 1 single turn when fighting other masters or potent fighters (especially in the same cost bracket)