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Hans abilities don't fit his price. He is too expensive.


ooshawn
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Yeah when he first came out he was worth his points, he gave range to a lot of list that lacked it and was just plain good. but now his CB is way too low to be useful for his cost. I really think is CB should be raised to 7 and they need to make custom ammo work like it does for the gunsmiths, then he will be on par with models at his cost.

I mean Nino without a scope can shoot just as far and hit a target more easly then a trained sniper with a scope. with trigger happy and being able to target more then one model a turn Nino is able to put out soo much more damage for one less SS then Hans,

Once the trapper came out his over point cost became more evident. Hans without changes is at best a 5-6ss model i mean compair him to the convict gunslinger.

-Andrew Haught

Edited by TimeLapse
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Hans ignores obscuring terrain (aka forests) and a variety of other things when targeting. Is he as good of a shooter as a Trapper? No.

But since you hire after you see what the terrain looks like, if there are a bunch of obscuring terrain pieces... take Hans. You can see to the other side of them, something no other model can really do.

That said, his uses are very limited.

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Trapper is still limited to the crews that can take that particular Special Forces and cuts off your other options. Hans doesn't.

I don't think the problem is with the lack os punch in Hans shooting. I think it is meant to be more of "utility shooting", which denies opponent some solutions without directly threatening his models with getting one-shot. Even that is quite a bit of a buff for crews that have no ranged attack of their own and can't bring the Trapper.

The problem is he is in price range where some of the most powerful models in the game resist now (8~13SS) and most of the crews simply cannot afford or even fit taking a second such expensive model, even in 45SS games (and you don't see bigger all that often). I think the high-end models were rare in Book 1 days. With 6~8SS being the average cost of better models, the crews had some spare SS to hire one of these expensive Mercenaries - notice how Misaki, Taelor, Hamelin, Killjoy or Bishop are all in the same price range as Hans. Some of them have been more or less useless for some time, some bring unique and still valuable abilities (Taelor's anti-construct hammer, for example).

Edited by Q'iq'el
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I'd say that while the Trapper is a solid choice, McTavish is probably the better general pick... same Cb, 2/3/4 thanks to crit strike instead of 1/3/5 w/ reposition moves, both get + flips vs beasts and 1 other (more Constructs about but Nightmares include some very choice targets)

The Trapper has the freikorps armour but McTavish has more wounds and Shrug Off

Trapper has 2" more range, Jerky Time and From the Shadows not being able to bring any other merc than Freikorps and Reckless

To me, except when running Von Schill who locks you to Freikorps anyway, then McTavish is slightly better from having the 1pt higher weak, the option for fast when you need it and retaining access to other mercs

Unfortunately poor Hans stays far more situational it seems but i'll still be picking him up, partly for Obey lists and partly because it was a model that drew me to the game

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I would go so far as to say that all the Unique Mercenary minions from Book 1 are overpriced. Some by more than others, of which Hans and Bishop are the most extreme examples (with Taelor and Hamelin probably the closest to fair) but they could all stand to be knocked down at least 1 stone.

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You knock them down one that means viks will get an unnecessary boost. Some are priced great convict, misaki, taelor all are fair price, just to name a few. Mercs aren't meant to be taken in every out of faction game. They are the occasional utility piece.

Hans and bishop could drop 2 and that would make them a fair price.

Edited by Mr. Bigglesworth
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Mercs aren't meant to be taken in every out of faction game. They are the occasional utility piece.

Completely agree with this.

Though I would like to see Hans get a smallish boost that keeps in theme with his counter sniper role, say:

Established Hide

If Hans has not moved during this activation he recieves +1 :rams to Cb for Custom Sniper Rifle Strikes.

In this way Hans would get a small boost to his CB and an increase to his Damage output (with the potential for 5/ 5/ 8 damage range with a high Rams card or the Red Joker).

And of course I would love to see his Custom Ammunition spell turned into a 0 Action instead (like the Gunsmith) so it is more useful.

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I feel omenbringer has the right idea. For his price, I think hans should be the best sniper or Antisniper. At this point, in my opinion he isnt the best at either. Question about hans. If I obey him to move, then later activate him, can he not shoot that sniper rifle? I never use him anymore, or This simple ruling would probably be commited to memory

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For his use, just think of a forested board, rare perhaps, but he becomes amazing then as nothing can see more than 6" bar him who can shoot freely still, and the moment thing, if memory serves is just he can not move and shoot in the same activation, so obey and move is fine, but again that is just from memory so not 100%

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correct me if im wrong, but cant hanz be obeyed to shoot if an enemy modle is within line of sight and range?

anyways my 2 cents as a freikorps player. I run von schill aka boba fette as my master and i aint got no vikkis, and play a mainly ranged/sniper list. Which usually include hans and always close by to the student of conflict, mctavish, and the convict gunslinger if the ss allow. ill also have a trapper or two if the ss allow. But i digress I try to surround the student with the non freikorp modles and keep the freikorp modles close by but as a second group.

Mctavish protects with nice melee and adds an extra crack shot to and fast to the gang, the gunslinger takes crowd control and mid range, leaving hans to pop the long shots trying to work in that headshot trigger and custom ammo when you can...its kind of a hurry up and wait crew but hey i was in the U.S. navy...thats kind of our thing lol

and i play a lot of neverborn and resurectionist crews so hans works for that well

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correct me if im wrong, but cant hanz be obeyed to shoot if an enemy modle is within line of sight and range?

He wouldn't be able to profit from his Custom Ammunition then, would he?

I think for that reason it makes more sense to move him with Obey and shoot within his activation... unless you don't need to move him and would rather get 2 shots, buffed and not-buffed.

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yea thats deffinatly a better way to do it. I personaly dont run any crews that use "obey".

But Ive played some 2v2 with zorida on my side and he was obeyed to move and shoot in seperat turns. And also with lady j and hanz has been delivered orders by an austringer to blast some dolls and ice gamin

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I would go so far as to say that all the Unique Mercenary minions from Book 1 are overpriced. Some by more than others, of which Hans and Bishop are the most extreme examples (with Taelor and Hamelin probably the closest to fair) but they could all stand to be knocked down at least 1 stone.

Ironically, I find the exact opposite when playing Viks are my master - stocking up of hard hitting models like Ronin and Misaki and leaving the durable but low-damage friekorps at home - unless I need them for a utility piece.

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Ironically, I find the exact opposite when playing Viks are my master - stocking up of hard hitting models like Ronin and Misaki and leaving the durable but low-damage friekorps at home - unless I need them for a utility piece.

Heh, cool. Different strokes, I guess... I like resilience with the Viks, because they already hit like a pair of semi trucks, but they're not too survivable. I find squishy melee beaters like Misaki just die to ranged attacks before they get a chance to contribute.

The Ronin strike a good balance between tough and smashy at a reasonable price, although they're slow. Taelor has the same issue - she's super at both taking and dishing damage, but that doesn't happen until turn 3 as she trudges across the board. However, when I want to say "Stay the hell away from this thing here or I'll beat your face inside out," I say it with Taelor.

Also, I would never think of Von Schill as low-damage. ;)

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There is one list that I may pay Hans big price for and that is when I am facing Hoffman, he can shoot into his horde of robots at 16 inches ignoring armor and cover. He is worth it if he kills Hoffman in his shell of constructs. But i would think that his CB should be as good as Ninos starting CB 7 and I think he needs to move custom not to a zero action but to the same format as the gunsmiths have.

I mean he is just worth 5-6ss as is with his Custom ammo moved to be like the gunsmiths. Upping his CB to 7(rams) would make him a SNIPER and not just a wanna be marksmen, if they uped his CB to 7 and then made his moderate damage a 3 then and only then would i think he is worth 8ss/9ss in my lists.

Edited by TimeLapse
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Viks don't really get a boost, they just get a wider choice of viable models. Currently my Viks use the Freikorps almost exclusively (since they're fairly priced) unless I want to take one of the terrible Book 1 mercs for sentimental reasons.

I always bring Taelor, having a high wound, high WP, high damage model, who ignores armor, and can push me around the field is simply too useful. I bring a Ronin and a Student of conflict if I'm concerned about my opponent getting a chance to kill one of my Viks. Otherwise, I also stick with the Freikorps.

The other purpose of the Student is to let me get Taelor into combat a turn sooner.

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When I make posts such as this one, it isn't to complain about the game of malifaux by any means. I think these are enlightening discussions, that show weaknesses that should eventually be addressed by wyrd in their endeavor to perfect the already great game that malifaux is. Is there a purpose to having models that are terrible such as the razorspine rattler? I can only see benefit in making models with terrible rules alittle better.

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