Arcane Effigy: Where does he fit?

[fritz the cat]

So we got the preview of the sculpt, and I Absolutely love it!

but...where does he fit in a crew?

Ramos: I think he loves either of his totems over this.

Rasputina: Essence is pretty huge for her, and she already gets +1 card

Collette: doves are pretty large part of her mechanics it seems

Marcus: I can almost see him working here, doesnt really have alot of synergy it seems, but doesnt have much of any downside.

And to top this off, if you take the effigy with any of them, youre closing the door on any of the MS&U assets, which I think may be the biggest strike against it.

But the model is rather lovely

[Kadeton]

I think you'll find he works just fine in a Collodi crew.

[Ratty]

Remember if your going to Manifest then you lose your totems.

[EnternalVoid]

The problem I see is that some of them like their totems even if they are going to lose them by using their avatars. Having a mobile toolkit for Ramos makes meeting his requirements for going avatar easier thanks to that extra Tome. Colette likes her doves too from what I have seen.

Of all of them I actually see Rasputina might want it depending on the list. Being able to throw another spell from her can be pretty big. Helpful if your opponents are making you move forward a bit as it allows her to be able to walk twice and still have two AP for her magic. It can help her avatar a bit too by giving it another AP for spells, allowing it to cast two while still using its general ap to melee or move.

That said I do feel that some neverborn leaders get more out of it.

[Odin1981]

I like it in colette lists giving out the casting expert to cassie so she can do 2x the blast template spell without having to spend 12ss for kaeris and student and then moving with nimble to back out of range off counter attacks.

[Adanedhel]

Dora loves the little guy as far as I can see, and it finally gives me a reason to take the Poltergeist ^^

[Brettqpublic]

I know you can't hire totems if you take an effigy but could Collette still summon doves while the effigy is in play?

[CannonFodder]

The problem I see is that some of them like their totems even if they are going to lose them by using their avatars. Having a mobile toolkit for Ramos makes meeting his requirements for going avatar easier thanks to that extra Tome. Colette likes her doves too from what I have seen.

Of all of them I actually see Rasputina might want it depending on the list. Being able to throw another spell from her can be pretty big. Helpful if your opponents are making you move forward a bit as it allows her to be able to walk twice and still have two AP for her magic. It can help her avatar a bit too by giving it another AP for spells, allowing it to cast two while still using its general ap to melee or move.

That said I do feel that some neverborn leaders get more out of it.

I agree, In my Ramos crew I take the mobile toolkit, and kill it after it hands out :tomes so I get the scrap token needed for summoning a spider. Collette, I'm not a fan of her avatar, but I think she can still summon birds afterwards. Raspy is a Maybe... see other arguments... and I think Marcus likes the jackalop

[marshimartian]

I know you can't hire totems if you take an effigy but could Collette still summon doves while the effigy is in play?

I don't see why not. Although it puts the hiring restriction on, the effigy is not a totem, and not connected to the master, so I see no reason Collette wouldn't be able to summon doves.

[morpsele]

So it would be like hiring Von Schill and then summon the Rogue Necro. You have 2 special forces but not at the hiriing.

If so i will buy the Effigie.

[Sholto]

I know you can't hire totems if you take an effigy but could Collette still summon doves while the effigy is in play?

AFAIK the Doves must "connect" to a friendly Master when they are Summoned. The Effigy's rules state that you must nominate one Leader per Effigy, and that Leader cannot then connect a Totem. So, if you nominated Colette when you hired the Effigy, she cannot connect a Totem later in the game. Not sure what happens if the Totem cannot connect, though.

[Kadeton]

Not sure what happens if the Totem cannot connect, though.

The easy option is probably to say that the summoning fails.

[nix]

The wording of Aetheric Demands is:

Aetheric-Demands: Non-Neverborn Crews hiring this model must nominate one leader per model with this Ability they hire. Those leaders cannot attach totems

Because its Attach and not hire, non-neverborn masters cannot summon new totems into play. As such, Colette cannot summon Doves after hiring the Aetheric Effigy.

[morpsele]

Thank you. I didn't have the book with me but that is a shame tought.

I might start a Collodie Crew Just to play the effigie

[dgraz]

I might start a Collodie Crew Just to play the effigie

That's why I picked up Collodi. Out of all the newer sculpts, I think every one of the effigies has been perfect.

[Sholto]

Hodgepodge Effigy takes the prize though - beautiful concept and looks like perfect execution

[*Jack*]

My thoughts that I stuck on the pullmyfinger wiki:

Ramos

Ramos generally gains a lot from taking the Mobile Toolkit. Since Ramos can't take a Totem if he's hiring Arcane Effigy, it's a tough call. Ramos benefits a lot from an extra tome, since it makes his summoning more reliable and gives the Surge trigger. The extra AP won't let you summon another Spider (since that's a (0) Action) or Electrical Creation (since they're Unique), so all it does is give an extra AP for Electrical Fire. The 4 soulstone cost, plus the loss of the Mobile Toolkit, makes the Arcane Effigy a difficult model to justify for Ramos.

Avatar of Invention - Ramos can manifest Turn 2 assuming he has enough tomes, or is lucky enough, and can fulfill the requirement turn 1, then use an (all) turn 2. The extra AP for casting will be nice for him, as he loses casting expert. This frees his 2 general AP to gain scrap counters, use melee attacks, or summon constructs. Whilst his spells remain much the same, he has a (2) that is effectively "Obey" on all constructs. The AP does not specify you cast a (1) spell, so whilst a tad ambigious, rules as written I believe you can move once, use this spell for (2), then use your melee expert attack. One thing to note if you take this effigy with Avatar Ramos, is that he will have a much harder time fulfilling the first manifest requirement without the extra tome from the mobile toolkit.

Collette

Colette really can gain a lot from the Arcane Effigy, but it comes at the expense of her Mechanical Dove. Due to the wording on the Arcane Effigy, even when it is killed, Colette will still not be able to summon doves, as she forfeits the ability to attach them. Performing a similar role to magical extension, conduct aether limits you to colettes position, but allows you to use her fantastic Ca for magician's duel, or discharge soulstone. The effigy is the only other model in the game, apart from Colette, that targets Ca as a resist on spells. Taking both allows you to take advantage of models with low Ca, and both models have an attack that ignores Armor. Whilst this is good, obviously, it has to be considered whether you actually need both models, as their offence fulfills a similar role. The Arcane Effigy's Arcane Reservoir is very helpful, though, because Colette can sacrifice two Control Cards for a Soulstone and therefore often has a high demand for them.

[Adanedhel]

Uhum, let's set some things straight:

Aetheric Demands: Non-Neverborn crews hiring this model must nominate one leader per model with this Ability they hire. Those leaders cannot attach totems.

Totem: Models with the Totem Characteristic must be connected to a Master or Henchman when hired by a crew or Summoned into a crew. [snip]

So no, you can't summon Mechanical Doves when having hired the Arcane Effigy.

on Special Forces:

A crew can only CONTAIN (emphasis mine) from one [Group Name].

While you may hire up to 2 and can summon more, you can't summon models from a second SF, since it states contain (at any moment) rather then hires.

EDIT: Nevermind, I failed to see that the page was still standing open from yesterday :s

[TimeLapse]

This Effegy is nasty in a Hamilen list, its soo handy for him and any army can take it i believe if you take the minion hamilen as well. but the master hamelin with an extra spell is nasty.

I plan to brawl with arcane effergy, I would do Hoffman and The tool kit attached to hoffman, then Ramos + A ramos with the effergy attached to him in a way.

The tool kit stays alive when Ramos avatars out, to give him more tomes for his overdrive and the effergy then gives ramos +1 casting on top of everything esle.

But its a hard call for puting in a scrap with a arcane master. In my mind he will find a home in all Hamelin players armies.

On the same note its hard for me to place any of the other effergys save the in an A-viks list, The outcast one gives an out for the A-viks if you need a model to hit for its first action, because it will cause the Viks to miss with its DF trigger so moving it into range is key but gives you an outlet for your A-viks rage..

Edited April 18, 2012 by TimeLapse

[CRC]

on Special Forces:

A crew can only CONTAIN (emphasis mine) from one [Group Name].

While you may hire up to 2 and can summon more, you can't summon models from a second SF, since it states contain (at any moment) rather then hires.

The 'contain' part only applies during the hiring phase, so it might as well say 'hire'. The rules marshals have already cleared hiring one SF and summoning in a second.

[Sholto]

On the same note its hard for me to place any of the other effergys save the in an A-viks list, The outcast one gives an out for the A-viks if you need a model to hit for its first action, because it will cause the Viks to miss with its DF trigger so moving it into range is key but gives you an outlet for your A-viks rage..

Nice one

[EnternalVoid]

Here is the Thread that CRC is talking about with the ruling, took me a while to find it *takes me a while to find it each time*. It is about 4-5 posts down but someone makes it real clear with a question about Zoraida summoning a Wicked Doll when she already has another special force models out *in this example a Gunsmith*. Weird Sketch responses to it in the very next post after the question.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?24324-Zoraida-and-2-Special-Forces/page14&highlight=Summoning

just throwing that out there as many people always see to be trying to find the ruling so they can show their groups.