Viks, maybe I'm just bad?

[Kiing]

Okay, so maybe it's just me, but does anyone else have a problem with loosing with the Viks? I've probably played a total of 11 games with them, and have won a grand total of 2, both times were against BRAND NEW players...

from what I've read, it's hard to loose against a straight forward team, but I do it consistantly somehow. It's kinda put a damper on my game and made me NOT want to play much anymore since I can't seem to do any of it right.

Suggestions on ways to learn how to play the models without being horrible to loose so much? New master to try? Or should I just stop playing and collect the models (which I also can't pain, I'm just not good at that either)?

Yes, this is a rant/frustration release/serious questioneer. So feel free to be brutally honest with me, I'm so dissappointed that I can't win simple games that anything that can be said, probably should.

Last game played was a 2v1.

Myself- Viks (with avatar), Ronin, Von Schill, Frekorps Specialist

Partner- Pandora, Teddy, Doppelganger, Sorrow x3

Opponent-

Sonnia+Perdita with too many models to name

[skyhawk]

well, i too am a semi new player, i dont have the viks but i play a little von schill. And i havnt been overly successful with the freikorp librarian and i read a lot about how great she is but she never does $$$$$$$$ for me. So i can share in your woe.

I personaly have learned the most from 1v1 games.

So for what its worth my suggestions...

convict gunslinger...have your seen this guy? hes awesome, pair him with the student of conflict and youve got a machine gun nest

freikorp trappers-ruthless ninja snipers who get to move every time they hit and 16in range and hunter to ingore some terrain

mctavish, while meant for gremlin crews, hes got a nice melee of 2in and can be increased to 3in and damage 2/3/4 with a positive twist and positive twist against beasts and nightmares with critcal strike on every shot

[Bruglyother]

First off, I'm going to ask you if you are familiar with the PullMyFinger Wiki? If you are, have you read all the entries for the models you own? These two parts alone can help quite a bit.

How many stones are you keeping in your cache? With the Viks, it is often a good idea to keep as many as possible, particularly if you are struggling. Don't be afraid to use them either.

What models do you own? Different models have different uses. And synergies can be important. I find having a Friekorp librarian in my Viks list is very helpful. Heal one Vik, other benefits too.

My suggestion is to read as much of the PullMyFinger Wiki as you can. At the very least, read up on your own models, and the "how to beat them" section of each of the other masters you are likely to face off against. Along with that, play more games. Try to play small for a while. Less models to worry about. Also, less need for resource control. If both sides have only 4 or so models, you are not likely to burn through your hand and stones. This allows you the chance to really learn what your models can do. Once you have a better idea of what they can do, then you can start focusing on resource control.

Mercenaries have some real strength in that most of their models can hold their own. On the flip side of that though is that you are often outnumbered, and there is less synergy than in other factions. Being outnumbered can be a real pain as activation control can be huge. Lack of synergy is less of a pain, and can actually be a benefit. You don't have to worry as much about Who activates when and does what to whom.

See if you can get a series of games against the same opponent and master. The less things you have to focus on at once, the more likely you can pick up the details you need to improve. Also, focus on the little gains as well. While you may lose, did you get VPs? Did you get more than last time? Did you prevent your opponent from getting any? Did such and such model last longer than before, while still accomplishing things? That sort of thing.

I hope this all helps. Feel free to ask more questions as many people here are more than willing to help you learn.

[BlueStar86]

It's not that hard to lose against straightforward teams, in fact those are some of your worst fights, because straightforward teams tend to deal a lot of damage, and the Viks are very, very, etc. frail.

One of the things that's kicked my butt on numerous occasions has been patience, keeping my units together, and not letting the Viks get too far from everyone else. Make use of cover and keep your crew together, but not right next to each other, or you are going to get blown up.

[Arcantix]

Viks are not hard to learn, but like anyone in Malifaux they are tricky to master. Remember that they can share spell effects (useful if you take the librarian for healing flips), and can switcharoo too. Line of Sight is a must versus any Ortega crew, so make sure you're using the recommended amount of scenery on the table, otherwise it's going to be a shoot fest and any melee-centric crew is going to be red pudding before they can do any damage.

I would have left the specialist and taken the librarian, personally. She brings more to the overall team than the specialist, unless you reeeaally need blasts.

[Serigala]

The Viks can be very effective when played aggressively.

Link to the Viktorias tactica on the Wiki in my sig.

From the list above it looks as though you were taking 25ss crews and yuu would have had about 3ss. I would never take less than 6ss in my cache - usually 8ss. This, even if I have a Librarian to keep the girls alive - the ss are to make sure that whatever I hit gets killed.

Its hard to offer further advice without more details of your games, but as soon as you are playing with another player, it becomes much harder to judge your own performance.

Be careful about including models with ranged atttacks. As the rest of your models want to be in melee you can find that you have very limited targets without risking a hit to your own models.

The avatar might look great but from my experience it can push you towards suboptimal plays, so you can hit the manifest requirements. When it does manifest you are swapping two good melee models with 3 actions each for 1 great one with 5. In a lot of cases I'd rather have the 2ss in my cache.

Stick with the girls. They will win you games...

[Kadeton]

All of the above is good advice. I would almost always start a Viks crew with Von Schill, a Librarian, and 8 SS in cache, then see how much you have left to spend on other models. Your advantage is mobility and burst damage - don't be afraid to play very conservatively, keeping your models safe, until you can unleash them in a devastating attack.

Mostly, read the tacticas, learn your threat ranges (especially for slinging the Viks into melee), and choose your schemes carefully. I wouldn't worry about the Avatar for now - it's mainly a way of making the beatdown even worse if you're already winning, so focus on getting to that point first.

The Viks are lots of fun once you get the hang of them, so don't give up.

[iamthefly]

meh, I suck too. Don't let it get to you, I just look for veriety in losing.

[Dumb Luck]

Have you tried taking a full cache of eight soulstones?

[Dustcrusher]

Some sound advice from everyone here. I am just learning the Viks myself, so I can't offer a lot of seasoned veteran's advice on them. However, as a player who has struggled a lot with being anything more than an awful player, I feel your pain and can offer some suggestions-

Bruglyother is right- play smaller games. 25 stones, maybe even 20. I'd also suggest a shared strategy and no schemes for a game or two so you can focus on one goal instead of having to juggle six (one individual strategy and two schemes per player). Then move to individual strats, no schemes, then add one scheme, and finally two.

What does your pool of available models look like? So far it sounds like you have the Viks, their avatar, 3 Ronin, and possibly the Freikorps box. Any other models we should know about? This way folks can advise you on what models should be used when.

Don't be afraid to proxy, either. Give Taelor and the Gunslinger a try if you haven't already- Taelor is a beast in melee and the Gunslinger can provide ranged support without being completely hosed if he gets caught in melee. I can speak on those two because I field both with my non-Outcasts (Taelor won me a game with Rasputina almost single-handedly against Sonnia not too long ago).

[sarge]

I too am a fairly new player with Viks and loooove them. I always take Taelor for some extra bash and usually the covict slinger for some ranged action. I have madde the mistake of sling shooting the Viks early on and leaving them a little open to being mauled or ranged attacked. As mentioned above I suspect the key is a good supply of SS to let the girls do what they do best. Oh did I mention the Ronin, remember if things get bad you can always kill off a Ronin to get some more stones, but not sure how cleaver that is as a tactic. Enjoy :-)

[Odin1981]

Not that you need any specific model for a specific crew/master but alot of people our fond of using von schill due to his better survivability with the viks. If you choose too then essentially he becomes your master due to his defenses (mainly the interaction of slow to die and use ss usage) and they become "throwaway" models that have use ss.

Now the key to this line of thought is that you dont throw them out at the first thing that comes into their threat range but knowing when to move them all in (or in most cases sword vik to take out 2-3 models in one activation with her between her potential of 4 ap to strike things down in addition to whirlwind triggers). They our a devastating crew when used right and with 5" walk and potentially fast with a student of conflict for grabbing objectives as well as bringing the pain but you will generally always be outactivated at least in the "early game" (first 2-3 turns) of a game.

However with "elite lists" ie ones that generally minus 2-3 things that our cheap (read desperate mercenaries 2ss a piece) possibly the new book 3 outcast doll 4ss cost depending on crew preferance is that while you will be outactivated at the start your capabilities our much better than all but a few of undercosted 4-5 point models. When as the early turns unfold you get a good idea where to drop her(sword vik and start slinging away the pain train) you will catch up in model activation fairly quickly our eventually around turn 4 or so outactivate them.

The main key to using elite crews (mostly 7ss+ plus a couple cheap sacrificial lambs) is staying somewhat online of one another and when the gangbang turn comes taking much more away then you give up to get ahead in the game and then impose your will on the opponent. Basically without getting too specific because each game will vary you want to move somewhat uniformly to/near the opponents objectives so they will not want to grab them up quick and make them commit to a area to get something done then wham bam thank you maam use the 20" flying sword vik drop and start swinging away at models of importance in eliminating key heavy hitters/objective grabbers to put your opponent on their back foot to completing your stuff while sending 1-2 models towards your stuff and getting your things done.

If I am being too general post again and give a example strategy and scheme(s) that you run and a normal opponent list that you face and I can give more detailed advice.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Sage advice.

Listen to this person.

[Kiing]

I really appreciate the advice everyone, it definitely makes me feel better that there are people nice enough to want to help.

A little more detail from the game--

Strategy- [shared] The one where we have to kill the other's master (I can't remember the name)

My scheme- Kill protege on his Nino.

It was a 50ss game, my partner and I each having 25ss, for reference, I had-

Viks

aViks (2)

Ronin (5)

Von Schill (9)

Specialist (5)

The first few turns I spent moving slowly up torwards the middle, using defensive stance with viks each turn (since that kept me from leaping forward like I have a problem doing), keeping the Ronin with them, I put Von Schill behind a building, using his nimble+2 AP to jump over a house, take a pot shot, then jump back over the house.

I decided it was time to unleash the viks when I saw his 2 Watchers and the Witchling Handler attempt to sneak up on the side of my board where I was waiting, I slung my sword vik in there, whirlwind bombed the 2 watchers and the handler (which overall took my 2AP and Melee expert). But at that point, my partner (whom is natrually better at games) was already being taken out by Sonnia.

The game ended with my aViks in melee combat with a 1Wd Perdita, and an aSonnia right next to me.

---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

Oh, and an earlier suggestion of naming some other models I have.

I have:

Viks (avatar also, clearly)

Ronin x3

Hans

Friekorps box

Student of Conflict

A mass amount of Hamelin's crew

since there's only a few of us playing, probably around 6 total. There's not a really strict rule of proxying, so occasionally I'll do that if I can find someone worth proxying.

[BlueStar86]

Get some of the other mercenaries. Taelor is a popular choice. Misaki is entertaining, if a little overcosted. Lazarus will be potent when he is released. Etc.

[Dustcrusher]

then wham bam thank you maam use the 20" flying sword vik drop

If I had the modeling ability I'd put one of the Viks on a corner turnbuckle- maybe green stuff some Macho Man (RIP) style shades over her eyes.

Oh, and an earlier suggestion of naming some other models I have.

I have:

Viks (avatar also, clearly)

Ronin x3

Hans

Friekorps box

Student of Conflict

A mass amount of Hamelin's crew

That's a good selection to start with. The only model that seems to be an underachiever in that group is Hans. Sadly, he is expensive for what you get, especially compared to the Trapper.

In addition to Desperate Mercs, Taelor and the Gunslinger, Misaki is worth trying. In exchange for a bit more utility she is more fragile, and she can companion with Ten Thunders Brothers, who are sort of the defensive counterparts to the mobile Ronin. Lazarus and the Hodgepodge Effigy both look like they will be great (though the Effigy means no Freikorps models).

[Dezzo]

Vickys need Student of Conflict.

[Bruglyother]

Vickys need Student of Conflict.

I beg to differ. I do just fine without any totem in my Viki list. Student can be useful, but is not a must have.

[Kadeton]

Yeah, the Student is certainly not essential. He's rarely used for more than 1 turn's worth of Fast on the Viks, then he's done. It's nice, but easy to live without.

[Requirement]

Being in a position you are in before.... Get out of multi-player games. The game doesn't really support it and you end up not being able to really learn the game and get really good at it. Once I started playing 1v1 games everything made a lot more sense. Trust me, the game is so much more fun, quicker, and works within the bounds of the mechanics.

[Jewomie]

yes! +1 to Requirement. some friends and i tried that, and sadly it just doesn't work. :/

There are alternate rules out there like the ones going on at Adepticon this year, and i am really interested in trying these out. But as for regular games, start out with one on one. you'll do better... or at least you'll learn where you made mistakes.

I know the power the Viks have, i lose to them almost every weekend. Trust me, once you get the hang of them, you'll kick some ass!

[Dezzo]

Being in a position you are in before.... Get out of multi-player games. The game doesn't really support it and you end up not being able to really learn the game and get really good at it. Once I started playing 1v1 games everything made a lot more sense. Trust me, the game is so much more fun, quicker, and works within the bounds of the mechanics.

What he said.