Viktoria: Avatar of Slaughter - Yay, Nay?

[DireTrollJake]

So, this avatar intrigues me. It down right gives me jollies and a warm fuzzy feeling inside with the title being exactly what it is; slaughter.

My jollies are from pure paper theory tho, and would like to know what you guys think having actually used it? What do they provide that they didn't as their regular viks? When do you take them vs not taking them?

I personally see them as a 2 point insurance policy for late game when your army has depleted and you REALLY wish you could kill nearly everything on the table in one swoop...

[Dumb Luck]

Worth it for all the buffs they get. Postive twist to damage and most importantly, one AP charges and Crit Strike as standard. Those two things make them worth it.

Plus, if you take a Desp Merc you could use him to get their first requirement really early.

[BlueStar86]

Meh, it's useful if I've suddenly found myself too spread out, and don't mind losing one of my lower-point cost minions, but I don't like losing the actions or wounds.

[Serigala]

Manifesting could definitely be a fun addition to the game, but in competitive play, it might not be the best idea.

While hitting the manifest requirements aren't too difficult, they may require you to take actions earlier in the game which are sub-optimal (I rarely use the Sisters to buff each other - as I usually prefer the additional melee strikes).

You are also paying 2ss for a model which won't benefit you until mid- to late game.

Then when you do manifest you have 1 model with less APs and less wounds than the two models it replaces.

With so many strategies and schemes being based on the number of models you have at the end of the game, you have also given up a significant model from a crew which probably started the game with fewer models than the opponent.

So, while the Avatar will be fun, it will not be an auto-include or auto-win by any means.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Serigala

[Odin1981]

If and when you know to pop her its like this you basically get a model that is coryphee duet fast trading the defenses the duet has for a damage range that only about 2-4 masters can rival.

Its probably not a model you want to get out right away but turn 3-4 it is usually easy too. Also most crews take von schill so you can still take a totem to benefit them you just attach it to him instead of them.

[Cunning]

aViks have the best weapon in the game. Paired CB8 and magical is a beast. Add in whirlwind, a trigger to charge for free after killing and critical strike and there's little not to like. The one thing you have to worry about is placement.

As they have to charge an enemy if they can't attack a model when they activate your opponent can kite them round the table.

If you do it correctly though they kill all known germs dead. Even Lilith and Perdita will struggle to survive their onslaught.

[BlueStar86]

There aren't too many things that can properly kite something as fast as aViks, Von Schill, the Riders, and a few others, but it's very easy to get someone else in melee with one of your opponent's slower units, and have the aViks cast "OUR KILL!".

[Cunning]

It's actually very easy to kite aViks. Keep most of your models out of LoS and one model who is well over their charge range in LoS. Unless aViks can attack one of their own models in melee they must charge that model. Which will then fail and their activation will be over.

[Kadeton]

It's actually very easy to kite aViks. Keep most of your models out of LoS and one model who is well over their charge range in LoS. Unless aViks can attack one of their own models in melee they must charge that model. Which will then fail and their activation will be over.

No... they simply choose to ignore that restriction and suffer 2 Wd, then complete their turn normally.

[Cunning]

Really? From the wording on the card it doesn't seem to give you the choice.

[BlueStar86]

How exactly are you going to hide from the entirety of your opponent's crew? The only way to force the Viks to manifest is to obey them, and obey's range isn't good enough to keep out of the 10" murder-radius of the Viks, reliably anyway 2" is very scary, nor is it long enough to stay out of the entire crew's range.

Cripes, just having Von Schill in your crew makes it virtually impossible to keep away from them, he can chase down the Riders when they aren't fast, and then they "OUR KILL!" him.

The card states:

Bloodlust of the Masamune: When this model activates, its first action must be a melee Strike Action targeting a model in its melee range or, if there is no moderl in this miodel's melee range, a Charge Action targeting the nearest enemy model. If this model does not take one of these two Actions first during its activation, it suffers 2 Wd.

That's it, it's first action can still very well be "OUR KILL!", it will suffer 2 Wd, but that's the price you pay.

Edited April 10, 2012 by BlueStar86

[Cunning]

I didn't mean the entirety of the enemy crew, just the Viks.

To me the wording says: You must take one of these actions if possible. If you can't then take 2 wounds.

If it just means you get the choice then it's very badly worded.

[BlueStar86]

You have to hide from the entire crew or they are just going to switch places with the other model. Just how the heck do you intend on hiding from the Viks, who are amongst the most mobile masters in the game? They can chase down pretty much anyone. They have a ~20" threat radius, not including when they get fast from a student of conflict.

[Cunning]

Well that all depends on your interpretation of Bloodlust of the Masamune

[BlueStar86]

There's no interpretation to be had, you are reading two abilities as one. I quoted it word-for-word above.

[Cunning]

I know that it the exact wording of the ability. However I dont think that it gives you the option of taking 2 wds, you can only do that if you cant attack or charge.

If it should allow you the choice then it's very badly written.

[BlueStar86]

I've played a few games with the aViks and it hasn't been a problem, because I have made sure that I was always in a good position.... even if that involved hijinks like running Von Schill into melee instead of shooting.

[Cunning]

Which is fine but if the only model in aViks' line of sight is halfway across the board then they have problems.

Of course the way to get around is to stick one of your own models next to aViks so they can take a swipe at them before pinging off with OUR KILL.

[BlueStar86]

Actually, I had exactly the situation you describe. I was in melee with a steampunk abomination, wasn't too far from Leveticus, but decided that staying there was a bad idea, so I manifested, swung at the steampunk abom, and "OUR KILL!"d my Freikorpsmann who was in melee with an arachnid swarm, because the Viks were basically on their own.

I ended up running Von Schill up into melee with a Guardian, murdered the arachnid swarm with the Viks, "OUR KILL!"d Von Schill, and murdered the Guardian. I could have killed Leveticus (technically his Stolen, as Lev had suicided), but then the Viks would have had to attack Taelor, and I really didn't want to begin cheating low cards.

Lesson of the story: sometimes having the rest of your crew really far away is a good thing, especially if you are in a bad position.

[Cadfan]

It seems to me that if the Viktoria Avatar doesn't have someone within its charge range, its pretty much screwed. It "must" declare a charge. So it does. It doesn't reach its target. Then its activation ends.

[DeusInnomen]

It seems to me that if the Viktoria Avatar doesn't have someone within its charge range, its pretty much screwed. It "must" declare a charge. So it does. It doesn't reach its target. Then its activation ends.

The Charge action ends, not the activation. The aViks are free to continue, since it only costs them 1 AP to perform a Charge.

[Cunning]

It seems to me that if the Viktoria Avatar doesn't have someone within its charge range, its pretty much screwed. It "must" declare a charge. So it does. It doesn't reach its target. Then its activation ends.

Exactly. This is my interpretation too. The only time they'd take 2 wds is if there is nothing in melee range and can't see any enemy models.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

The Charge action ends, not the activation. The aViks are free to continue, since it only costs them 1 AP to perform a Charge.

But they have a special rule which says that if their charge fails then their activation ends.

[Guy in Suit]

aViks sounds pretty nasty if you don't follow all their rules.

[Lucidicide]

aViks sounds pretty nasty if you don't follow all their rules.

Zing!

[BlueStar86]

...Or you could just make a melee attack, there's nothing to attack, so the attack cancels, causing the model 2 wounds. That said, it could/should be worded better, but I still don't believe it will come up often enough for it to matter, except in silly hypothetical situations.