Avatar of Anathasia, anyone used him??

[Da Git]

alrighty, just got book 3 last week. when I first read Mcmourning avatar stats & what Simmo can do, I thought, wow. this is awesome... 3 days later, and I ain't so sure.

he gets better in melee, and tougher for the exchange of his good spells & organ donor

he also gets simmo, a bigger, badder flesh construct.

as a pair the dynamic duo should eat face. No?

the biggest downside i can see (other than above) is that you lose a flesh construct for simmo (and can't even soup it up with a nurse because the effects carry on). although the doctor can take his meds & then transform!

Any thoughts? or player experience??

[Calmdown]

One of the best avatars in the book. Allegedly out in May. Will be in basically every McMourning list I run and is going to be horrific for enemies to deal with.

As soon as he's out, will be plenty of reports in my 2012 mcMourning log!

[SpiralngCadavr]

I'm definitely looking at getting him, since I love playing McMourning, but I'm feeling like I must be playing McM too conservatively, because I'm having trouble seeing how I'd pull off his avatar any time it would be early enough to still be useful.

Thoughts on pulling off the avatar?

[rancor709]

Nurse comboed with sue or mctavish for shrug off. And for elivation of a

sacrifice on manifest for mcm.

[Nayte]

McM is my favorite master, and his avatar seems like a real game changer but we'll see when he comes out. Making your opponent deal with Simulacrum 29 has the potential to shift the game dramatically.

[SoulG]

It's also not like you'll have a totem to worry about sacrificing past turn 2 or so.

[Da Git]

so does anyone have any actual play experience with him (ie proxied)?

I was thinking trying to get him second-third turn after summoning rogue necro (& just use 4 BP's for Simmo).

first turn.

Nurse makes Chihuahua unkillable & re-activates Sue (if running him)

McMourning & Sebbie/rafkin (if running them) get as many BP's as possible

Chihuahua wracks either McM or canine remains before offing itself.

Second (if right hand, otherwise with till third to inject.)

Nurse injects McM & Sue

McM summons rogue necro. Gets his requirements & manifests

35SS - 6/7 Cache

McM

Avatar - 2

Chihuahua - 1

Nurse - 5

Sue - 8 (7+1)

2 Necropunks/Sebbie/2 Night Terrors - 6

Canine remains - 2

Bete/Dead Rider - 9/10

What do people think? Plan or fail waiting to happen!!

PS. is he really coming out in May?? if so, bye bye $$

[Calmdown]

I'm definitely looking at getting him, since I love playing McMourning, but I'm feeling like I must be playing McM too conservatively, because I'm having trouble seeing how I'd pull off his avatar any time it would be early enough to still be useful.

Thoughts on pulling off the avatar?

Well, I've never failed to pull off his master-specific scheme... so avatar'ing wont be much harder.

Normally, 5 body parts goes like this:

0ap - Scalpel Sling (1 bp)

1ap - Melee attack (1 bp)

1ap - Dissection (3bp)

If can discard a bp to gain fast and use it to walk, you can do all that in the same activation and have an 11" threat range.

If you instead do the following:

0 - Scalpel Slinging (1bp)

1 - Rancid Transplant, trigger Scalpel Magic for a free melee attack (1bp)

1 - Dissect (3bp)

then you can complete both requirement in one activation.

Lots of leeway in there to play with how you use your AP depending on if you need threat range, if you dont, if you can charge, if you have a mask for scalpel magic, etc. It's very easy to pull this off in one turn, especially given you can basically stone every action because, well, you're McMourning.

The reason the avatar is so good, is that McMourning is very good offensively but really suffers defensively if he doesnt kill everything in the area when he commits. Usually you dont commit McMourning until the enemy is already bogged down by your summons and/or the rest of your list, but the avatar means he can commit much easier and then transform to gain increased Df and Simulacrum 29's protection. Unlike most avatars there is no rush to transform him asap, and since McM has so many AP available to him due to being fast and getting a combined move-attack in Scalpel Sling, he can easily commit and than avatar on the same turn (which also gains you two attacks from Simulacrum 29, too, inside mcMourning's -ve flip aura)

McMourning himself actually gets not particularly better offensively when he avatars, losing 1 Cb and 2 Severe Dg as well as two great offensive spells to gain paired. He also loses his selfhealing ability. However, the best style of play I've found with McMourning is to commit him to end games (which he does very well) and being able to do this, and drop another free heavy hitter, then gain extra defense, and also drop an amazing -Df/Wp aura, reinforces his ability to be a game-ender considerably.

I love this model.

[SpiralngCadavr]

The reason the avatar is so good, is that McMourning is very good offensively but really suffers defensively if he doesnt kill everything in the area when he commits. Usually you dont commit McMourning until the enemy is already bogged down by your summons and/or the rest of your list, but the avatar means he can commit much easier and then transform to gain increased Df and Simulacrum 29's protection. Unlike most avatars there is no rush to transform him asap, and since McM has so many AP available to him due to being fast and getting a combined move-attack in Scalpel Sling, he can easily commit and than avatar on the same turn (which also gains you two attacks from Simulacrum 29, too, inside mcMourning's -ve flip aura)

Thanks, this is what I needed to hear. (The bold part is what I often feel is the problem I have with McM.)

It might be because my most common enemies have been nasty melee masters (Justice and Lilith are the two I've gone up against most), but I've been super-wary of ending anywhere near the opposing master, so I haven't gotten many kills with him until I've worn down the enemy master by throwing stuff at it until it's taken a lot of damage or dead.

[Calmdown]

Thanks, this is what I needed to hear. (The bold part is what I often feel is the problem I have with McM.)

It might be because my most common enemies have been nasty melee masters (Justice and Lilith are the two I've gone up against most), but I've been super-wary of ending anywhere near the opposing master, so I haven't gotten many kills with him until I've worn down the enemy master by throwing stuff at it until it's taken a lot of damage or dead.

Lilith is a tough one - you cant hurt her realistically with melee, she has a lot of wounds to chew through, and will likely kill you in a turn. Your best way of beating her is by casting Wracked with Pain at her as she struggles to resist it, and also using Master Surgeon on her; you can easily put 7+ Wd on her in a turn that way, so with a bit of support she should go down.

McMourning is not a good bet vs Neverborn though, you should almost never choose him if you have the chance. He's weak vs Pandora and Zoraida due to his Wp, he's weak vs Lilith due to her Df and superior speed, he's weak vs Dreamer because of Terrifying vs his Wp, and he's weak vs Collodi due to Collodi's speed and multiple small attacks. He's weak to black blood. He's weak to being heavily outmaneuvered. Neverborn have everything that Rezzers hate. If you're going to play vs Neverborn, you pull Kirai out of your case imho.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Kirai is next on the list but, first I wanted to get a good grasp of the game with only one Master, so I've just been using him (and, yeah, he hung far back vs. Pandora).

[Nayte]

With rumors circulating that he's coming out next month, I think I'm going to proxy him this week.

On paper, he seems godlike... we'll see.

[Nayte]

Got a chance to use him. Just slotted him in with a normal list. Got both the manifest reqs turn 2 by gunning for it, avatar'd turn 3 and man... Simularcrum is awesome. McMourning being able to heal is great too. Paired + Scalpel sling... holy crap!

I did not like the fact that I lost my ability to heal when I damage. I also lost 1cb, but paired at 5 is still nasty. McM being able to give his opponents negatives to their defense flip was crucial.

Simulacrum is a nasty, nasty model. Being able to crap out body parts for McM, able to make himself PAIRED with cb7... 11 wounds... AWESOME. His 0 is almost never used, but could be nice against Raspy or in casual games. Also, buffing McM with Hard to Kill saved me from dieing.

I want some more testing before a final judgement, but right now he seems to bring a nasty, nasty combo to the table.

I'm going to be testing him out for the next couple of weeks till the May releases come out. I really hope the rumors are true.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Great to hear! McMourning, as my first Master, has a special place in my heart, so I'm pretty excited about his avatar's performance.

[Da Git]

Nice to see someone using him!!

I really want to but atm my only opponent is very new (& english isn't his first language) so I don't really want to pull avatars out on him yet...

just out of curiousity, what do you mean by "Simulacrum craps out body parts for McMourning"? simply by killing stuff??

I also really hope the rumours are true... why, oh why haven't they shown us piccies yet???????

[Nayte]

just out of curiousity, what do you mean by "Simulacrum craps out body parts for McMourning"? simply by killing stuff??

Simulacrum has this ability:

Walking Morgue: A friendly McMourning, Avatar of Athanasia may (0) Interact when within 3" of Simulacrum 29 to discard up to three Body Parts Counters. This model then performs one Healing Flip for each Body Part Counter discarded.

If you don't plan on Scalpel Slinging, or if Simulacrum is hurt/re-summoned, you can use this to heal rather than use McM's ability "Perfect".

It's situational, but if you're lacking in body parts(Maybe from summoning Simulacrum?) it's a great ability. Simulacrum WILL get focused, same with McM. Be careful of crews that have units that blast. Simulacrum 29 has “Fire Bad”: This model suffers +2 Dg when suffering Dg inflicted by blast effects.

I plan on testing him out some more this weekend.

On a side note: Scalpel sling + the trigger “CutCutCUT!!” is incredible. The one problem is that you will most likely be out of Simulacrum's 3" range for buffs, so make sure to companion them. It's something I need to work on. McM loses the ability to heal on his attacks, but with "Perfect" and "CutCutCut" you shouldn't feel a huge change in his healing ability. He also has +1 armor while near Simulacrum, and one of the following: Bulletproof 1, Hard to Wound 2, or Hard to Kill. Hard to Kill more than likely being the best one to take, unless you're going against a ranged attack. You'd get bulletproof 1 + armor 1, so unless they're hitting you for 4+ damage, you're going to take 1dmg from ranged attacks.

Keep in mind that Avatar McM has a passive ability Crawling Doom: This model’s Df flips against melee attacks receive +. Wp and Df flips made by enemy models within 3” of this model receive -. So you're a melee god once you Avatar.

And... CONFIRMED FOR MAY! Looks like I'm going back to mainly using McM.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I can theoryfaux all day about McM...

[Nayte]

Tested him again last night.

Despite all the positives, McM becomes very vulnerable when not near Simulacrum. Losing the +armor sucks...

Without being able to heal on strikes like his regular form, hurts. You can use "perfect" but it isn't the same.

His new 0, the corpse counter missile ability, is really funny to see in play, but I'm not sure how competitive it will be. Nothing is more fun than throwing 5 corpse's at a Gremlin.

Simulacrum took out Avatar Som'er, cb7 with positive flips + McM's -df flip aura... insane.

[Huang Da Wei]

I am confused reading the posts on here re manifesting Mcm.

the book says get 5 body parts from ENEMY not your own guys and kill an ENEMY from rancid. So if your opponent is a shooty crew sitting back their side of the board you could take 4 or 5 turns to manifest surely.

[Da Git]

quite possible, the good thing I can see with McM is that he is quite potent even before avataring & quite fast in both forms. Actually I think he is faster before as he doesn't need to hang out with Simmo. It also gives a chance for any flesh constructs you've summoned to die (so the wounds don't carry on to the big guy). & it costs so many less actions to do it later.

Also if you suspect their crew is going to sit back, announce the Hold out scheme!

[Calmdown]

As I've said before, McM gets 5 body parts and a Rancid kill in a single turn with absolutely no issues. I do this in the majority of my games anyway, it's what McM should be doing if you're playing him properly most of the time anyway; so his manifest requirements are really strong, and easy.

Rushing to manifest isn't necessary, it's like Fool's Gold (or alternatively, a noob trap). There's no inherent advantage to manifesting early. Manifest when you *want* to, ie, when McMourning just charged in to the thick of it and now you want a huge simulacrum bodyguard standing next to him. It shouldn't matter that you can't heal next turn, what matters is that you are harder to kill then base McMourning, and if McMourning is still standing the turn after he engaged and is in the thick of it, the game should end in a tabled or near-tabled opponent anyway.

Avatar McM is awesome.

[Da Git]

Rushing to manifest isn't necessary, it's like Fool's Gold (or alternatively, a noob trap). There's no inherent advantage to manifesting early. Manifest when you *want* to, ie, when McMourning just charged in to the thick of it and now you want a huge simulacrum bodyguard standing next to him. It shouldn't matter that you can't heal next turn, what matters is that you are harder to kill then base McMourning, and if McMourning is still standing the turn after he engaged and is in the thick of it, the game should end in a tabled or near-tabled opponent anyway.

Avatar McM is awesome.

+1. Exactly what I was thinking, manifest once in the thick of it, Simmo is soooo slow that to manifest before would mean the doctor is leaves him behind...

Deffo thinking that the dead rider is going to be useful for taxi-ing him (another +, he is in my lists anyway!)

[Huang Da Wei]

Just a thought, does the alt Mcm come with a stats card for avatar Mcm or does it come with Simi ?

Edited May 6, 2012 by Huang Da Wei
typo

[Zachilles]

My question is do you change anything about your crew when you decide to take aMcmourning? It seems like you can run your standard crew (Von Schill, Dead Rider, Night Terrors etc etc) and just toss the avatar in to pop late game if needed. Are there any models you feel become essential when you want to use his avatar?

[Da Git]

I thank the alt just has the McM stats Simmo has the avatar stats. The picture on the avatar card is the artwork from book contact 3. That's what I was led to believe anyway...

The main option I've seen is to add in a nurse and either Sue or McTavish as you can then supe up McM on the turn he manifests. Just make sure he already has the requirements!

Edited May 7, 2012 by Da O&F Git
fixed. Dang posting on the phone...

[Calmdown]

Deffo thinking that the dead rider is going to be useful for taxi-ing him (another +, he is in my lists anyway!)

Please, please get out of this mindset! Dragging your own models with Dead Rider is something that should be done situationally, never take him on purpose to do it. Try to plan your lists better and your early game play better, rather than spending 10 points on a crutch that will often not be worth it. It's a really bad strategy.

Can we start calling the Simulacrum '29' for short instead of 'simo' and 'simi'? 29 sounds so much better