Hoffman, slingshot "alfa strike"

[Raising]

well i develop this tactic and wanted to share it is quite simple but really efective

There are two versións, Melee hoffman and Hoffman bomb.

first you need a peacekeeper or a warden to make the ride, i like more the peacekeeper because its endurance. You normally move the construct and oponent get one activation before you use hoffman, letting them make some hurting stuff because you are exposed, not anymore!!!

things you need, for the melee hofman slingshoot,

Cards, 5+ mask, and a 8+mask if you want to go back to safety ( but losing some heavy potential)

Steampunk aracnid (to copy melee master)

Warden ( to copy pursuit)

out activate the best you can with the little aracnids and then make them stick toweder, U want the target to be activated by the time you atrike to get advantaje from Pursuit

here you have 2 options move the warden to be at 6'' of where hoffman will arrive in next step or use the warden as your mount.

Activate Hoffman, asimilate melee master from aracnid, linked in on the mount(peacekkeper/warden), cast override edict on hoffman itself.

since linked in allow the mount to activate after hoffmans firsst activation now you can move your mount and then use hoffman buffed.

activate mount, walk up to 15'' and position hoffman in front, if the target is closer atack it instead of move that long.

activate hoffman again,asimilate pursuit from warden, tap power on your mobile toolkit(best option usually) or the mount, atack!!

you get 3 general AP and 2 mele AP, so you make 3 machine puppet on itself and 2 normal strikes.

3 ataks CB +6:rams with to hit and dmg, with critical (up to 8 dmg ignoring armor)

2 ataks CB +4:rams with to hit and dmg

There isnt a lot of things that can stand this even masters using soul stones will have hard time, harder if you do this in 3rd turn and save cards from 1st and 2nd to make it easy.

If you only need 1 +6 and 2 +4 atack to do the job and have a 8+:masks then you can reactivate the mount and run away.

warden = 5ss, aracnid swam = 10ss.

the hoffman boom use the same mechanic to make the asault but u must get the mobile kit and if posible go to base contact with a enemy o other friendly contruct ( enemy construct bost the dmg too)

while making hoffman at 3'' of 2 o 3 enemy non construct models, use open circuit and cheati t high enought so no one can defend without soul stones ( use soul stones if necesary), u get 3 uses if u have no other construct then the mount and the mobile toolkit that is a potential 12 dmg, this is how i deal with pandora and other models that have fancy rules when targeted.

i think this can be improved with some sinergy from other models. ideas?

[Cunning]

I'm afraid you can't cast override Edict on Hoffman as it is an attack and models can't target themselves with attacks.

EDIT: Also even if you could a model can't reactivate until after an enemy model has activated. So that wouldn't work either.

[Raising]

If i can target hoffman, the spell not only give you reactivate it makes the target activate "after this model activation end", so it have a "linked in" efect too.

but this is a OH crap thing. Cant I target hoffman with a harmless spell?

[Alex]

Not if it has a Resist, because that is how an Attack is defined in Malifaux. This is the same reason Lilith cannot cast Transposition on herself.

[Cunning]

If i can target hoffman, the spell not only give you reactivate it makes the target activate "after this model activation end", so it have a "linked in" efect too.

Yes but a model cannot activate twice without an enemy model activating inbetween. There is no way around this rule. Not that it matters as Hoffman can't cast it on himself.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

There is no rule like that cunning, there is just no scenario where it could happen.

[Cunning]

There is no rule like that cunning, there is just no scenario where it could happen.

Hmm. maybe there was a ruling about it. I definitely remember something about it. Either way as you say there is currently no way for this to happen.

[WindlordRyu]

If a Stitched Together is the last model to activate in a turn and it manages to get itself killed during it's activation it should be possible to have it activate twice in a row.

[Cunning]

True. Maybe I imagined the whole thing.

[Finnegan]

I think that's an exception though. What CunningStunt means is that you can't bypass normal activation order with a Reactivate. For instance, Collette can give herself re-activate, but she can't, through chain-activations of any kind, re-activate on the same turn as she activated: the ennemy should have the opportunity to activate a model before she re-activates (barring the exception you mentionned).

[Iron Skies]

Going to post on override edict here. It specifically states you activate the construct immediately after Hoffman has finished his activation

[Cunning]

Yes but that construct activated previously. At some point an enemy model has activated since the construct last activated.

[Raising]

what happens if the target is the totem that activate before hoffman and chain activation with it?

being hoffman unable to target hisself make mi really sad : ( :(

ill build some machine to destroy your dreams for this, fear hoffman!!!

[WindlordRyu]

You can't use companion to chain a model that has already activated. The totem should be able to use magical extension to cast override edict on Hoffman though, assuming it's a (1) spell.

[Iron Skies]

Is a (2) spell to stop just that from happening

[Raising]

using companion this way:

activate hoffman, trigger companion on the toolkit, set the toolkit to activate before hoffman ( you can choose the order), then activate hoffman and do override edict on the toolkit, the toolkit should activate again here, didnt it?

there is no real reason to make this secuence but just wondering how this interact wuith that rule ( i dont know where is writed, and the atack it-self neither)

[Cunning]

I may have imagined the rule. Or it may have been a ruling from a rules marshal.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Raisings that would work why you would ever do it, dont know.

Mobile companion Hoff, Mobile goes first, then Hoffman activates, Hoffman overrides mobile, mobile would have to go next.

Now lets say you have rusty and she gave Hoff reactivate before sequence, I don't know wordibg of override but you might be able to companion Hoff again, since I believe Mobile doesn't official activate until Hoff has completed his. Cunning's remark comes into play if mobile would be consider activated the moment override was cast, if so mobile couldn't lump Hoff in because he was still active. A model cant be companioned if already active.

[Headcase2]

I may have imagined the rule. Or it may have been a ruling from a rules marshal.

It was a ruling from Sketch with regards to Ramos (who can reactivate a lot easier with his Brass Arachnid totem and can also use (0) Linked in, on himself). Not sure if it still applies, but as CunningStunt stated, the ruling said that a model can't activate twice without the opponent getting the opportunity to activate in between. If your opponent is done with all of his activations that's fine though, he gets the opportunity but can't take advantage of it.

[Requirement]

using companion this way:

activate hoffman, trigger companion on the toolkit, set the toolkit to activate before hoffman ( you can choose the order), then activate hoffman and do override edict on the toolkit, the toolkit should activate again here, didnt it?

there is no real reason to make this secuence but just wondering how this interact wuith that rule ( i dont know where is writed, and the atack it-self neither)

The really important thing to remember is that Override Edict is not Reactivate proper. I believe is has been stated now that, despite what your card says, it no longer "grants" the ability of Reactivate as Hoffman could just assimilate that after giving it and as CunningStunt is pointing out that it just doesn't work out well rules-wise (I believe CunningStunt is correct, you can not reactivate in the same activation. Override Edict forces a model to "ignore it's programming" and go or go again. If the Mobile Toolkit could cast it, your order of activation would work out just fine, it just can't happen.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

@ headcase that sounds like a case ruling.

@ requirment I dont follow what you saying but raisings example would work. Override still gives reactivate if model has activated. As for assimilate the rule was you cant assimilate anything not printes so no concerns about reactivate being assimilated.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Turbodog]

Hello, everyone. I'd like to comment on the concept of Hoffman Slingshotting. As far as I can tell, it can't be done in the game here is my reasoning why:

Definition: I am defining a "Slingshot" as the ability to move into position from outside the enemy's range, attack with several attacks, and then move back to outside enemy range.

Hoffman moves by someone else moving. His walk of 3" won't get him into or out of range by itself, so the key is something else must move causing Hoffman to move due to Drawn to Metal. This makes the scenario: Move critter, attack with Hoffman, move critter back.

This is all well and good, but the problem is that there is currently no construct that can activate first and give Hoffman companion or that can simultaneous activate with Hoffman that can carry him. Hoffman can either Linked In or Override Edict to make a construct go after him, but not before. Hoffman also can't Override himself as stated above.

So you can easily move into range, but then must sit there exposed for one activation before you do your thing. It is very easy if you can keep the ride and Hoffman together and alive for one activation to then hit and run by activating Hoffman to attack and then Reactivate the Ride to get away. (If the ride is a Peacekeeper, it may be more advantageous to just keep attacking with the Peacekeeper at this point rather than bug out.)

Key point: I haven't been able to figure out the scenario that does not leave Hoffman exposed at close range for one activation due to needing to activate the "ride" separately and first.

[Requirement]

@ requirment I dont follow what you saying but raisings example would work. Override still gives reactivate if model has activated. As for assimilate the rule was you cant assimilate anything not printes so no concerns about reactivate being assimilated.

Sorry, long tired day. Through a series of erratas it's pretty moot. From the way I understand it (I can't find the thread... but I am sure there was one that I read one time...) the model that you use Override Edict on doesn't actually GAIN Reactivate it instead just gets a second immediate activation... more like a giant Obey on the target model. If I remember correctly it is so that Reactivate couldn't be Assimilated and so that the Reactivate rules would be consistent across the board.

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 PM ----------

I like it as one big obey as it give the nice and fluffy feel of Hoffman actually psychically controlling the machines to go beyond their programming.

[Raising]

i think you can asimilate reactivate because it is not printed, and somewhere the asimilate wording got changed HERE ( i will love the day they centraliced all of this rule changes)

maybe using lucious we can make the slingshot. but it wont come cheap. any way as far as I see in my games a pack of a peacekeeper a MT and hoffman with the buff from the guardian and protected betwen theyrselves cand endure almos any model. then you can destroy whatever is near you, and thanxs to its mobility (16'' + range) you make presure over the enemy models that move away from theyr core team. but if you can go in and spam open circuit to 3 or more models do it

[Cunning]

You can only assimilate what is written on a models card can't you? So you would never be able to assimilate reactivate? Isn't that part of a ruling somewhere?