Alps: Re-examined

[Nyarlanthotep]

Hey there, this is my first post on this forum, I've been playing quite a while. But haven't really checked out the forum much before, but a friend directed me back here as there was the big Dreamer Errata. So I've been reading through all the changes and some of the posts in the Neverborn forum. One thing that keeps coming up is that Alps are now pointless to hire. I'm not sure this is true.

The main reason people give is they now have insignificant. Now, yes I admit this is a disadvantage, but I don't think it's as major as people seem to think it is.

• Firstly, Insignificant only matters in less than 50% of the strategies in the game, a lot of the time it's makes no difference at all. If your Strategy is to kill the enemy Master what do you care that some of your models can't sit on a Claim Marker, they don't need to.
  
• Secondly, It doesn't matter if a model is insignificant if they make it easier for your other models to survive to take objectives. There are quite a few scenarios where you have to take just one point. If a model allows your other models to do this easier or survive retaliatory strikes then you overlook the fact they can't hold the objective themselves. For example you see plenty of Pandora players taking 3 Sorrows because they allow her to survive better.
  

As you decide your crew after you have flipped for Strategies you can decide whether Insignificant is a big deal. If I need to take multiple points due to Line in the Sand then yes having lots of Insignificant will severely hamper my efforts, however if I'm trying to Kill my Opponents General or Kill more SS of their models then I can really just ignore Insignificant when building my crew. So as long as your picking your Crew after you know the Strategy I don't see Insignificant to be a big deal on a model, you won't take them all the time, but I don't think you should be doing that with any model in the game.

So this brings us to the real question, are Alps ever worth 3ss. I personally think they can be. You can no-longer drop them on the enemy and watch their whole crew fall over gagging for air, but I think we all agreed that that ability was just a bit overpowered.

With the changes to Bury you can no longer prime your Dreamer crew. This is quite a big dent to your survivability when you drop a bunch of your Nightmares. Before you could wack them all into Defensive Stance, Throw up your Stitched Fog all in the first turn, then Bury the models, Drop them on the enemy and they were able to survive quite well. Now you drop them on the enemy and they get a chance to beat on you before you can throw up any defences, and Nightmares are quite fragile. This can be made even worse if your up against a crew like Perdita where they can all companion up and destroy your crew before you can activate you Nightmares.

This is where I can see Alps having a place again in a Dreamer crew. Alps don't need to be primed to give your crew some defense. A couple of Alps dropped in with the rest of your crew can severely blunt their ability to retaliate against your crew. With 2 Alps they are getting a -ve flip on all their Wp tests to avoid slow. Even if you can slow 1 or 2 expensive models you will probably have made enough of an impact to make them worthwhile. And this is before you look at the other things they can do.

• 6ss of Alps is 4 Attacks, the damage might not be great, but you can hit then and give them Slow, which is an extra damage on top of their base, and if they are slow they can't hurt your crew as much.
  
• you can use them to get a healing flip on a Nightmare which might be the difference between them surviving to be buried again or getting wiped out.
  
• If anything on the enemies crew has fast they can do significant damage.
  
• If any enemy model tries to hit one of your crew they take a Wd.
  

So overall I don't think they are a bad package for just 3ss. If you need multiple objective takers then a Night Terror or an Insidious Madness will probably be better, but if your going to need to concentrate your force on one target I think the Alps are well worth their points.

Discuss.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ratty

[rancor709]

I think a single alp has a place as a way to force slow and drop a wound. Beyond 1 alp everything else screams take me more than another alp would.

[Nyarlanthotep]

A second Alp gives you the -ve flip so it's far more likely their models will fail their test as they can't cheat. So I feel having a second Alp is a force multiplier.

• With a single alp I need a 7+ to pass my test (Roughly 54% chance of passing), and I can cheat it from my hand.
  
• With two alps I need a 7+ to pass my test, but I have to flip 2 cards and choose the lowest (Roughly 29% chance of passing), and I can't cheat.
  

So 2 Alps are far more effective in causing slow, than 1 Alp point for point. Adding a 3rd Alp still lowers their chance to avoid slow further to 16% but it's not nearly as effective as the second alp because their models already can't cheat the flip.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Nice first post! Your points on Insignificant is something that I feel is generally good advice-- some people seem to think that one negative ability is enough to ignore a model.

[Jewomie]

A second Alp gives you the -ve flip so it's far more likely their models will fail their test as they can't cheat. So I feel having a second Alp is a force multiplier.

• With a single alp I need a 7+ to pass my test (Roughly 54% chance of passing), and I can cheat it from my hand.
  
• With two alps I need a 7+ to pass my test, but I have to flip 2 cards and choose the lowest (Roughly 29% chance of passing), and I can't cheat.
  

So 2 Alps are far more effective in causing slow, than 1 Alp point for point. Adding a 3rd Alp still lowers their chance to avoid slow further to 16% but it's not nearly as effective as the second alp because their models already can't cheat the flip.

just so i know i read the errata right... the -ve flips stack but the model only has to make one duel, correct?

or did i mess that up somewhere?

[Sybaris]

Thanks for putting the poor alps in the spotlight

[Ratty]

just so i know i read the errata right... the -ve flips stack but the model only has to make one duel, correct?

or did i mess that up somewhere?

The Errata didn't actually change this, it's a single test with a for each extra Alp in range.. but what it meant was after you failed this single duel you didn't take a Wd for every Alp.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ratty

[Jewomie]

Thanks, i knew i didn't read it 100% right, but i don't play the dreamer, so i didn't pay too much attention

[magicpockets]

I personally feel Alps are still "usable" but that for every reason you'd have for taking them there's a now a better 3ss option instead. For example, Night Terrors (significant and faster), Sorrows (as their inflicted wounds stacK), Desperate Merc+1ss (best pointed model in the game) - or even spending the extra stone for an Insidious Madness.

[Lord Shaper]

I can see it causing some issues with people who didn't realise what they still could do...

You could get someone down to one wound and then drop them so there is a - flip and take them out that way...