Jewomie Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 So, i wont lie to you all... clearly i have a probelm. I have been playing a ton of different crews lately, and it seems every time i dive into one, i start getting the itch to play a different one. Lucky for me, i have almost all the box sets from when I did a lot of demos in the area, so for the most part i can calm a wild urge to lose with a master i've not played in over a year. lol. Now, as Adepticon moves closer, and RebeccaJo and i are most likely going, i have been working extra hard to get my Marcus crew back up to speed, and generally spending a lot of time with the Beastmaster. So, when the Con is over, i'm going to want a change. Something new and exciting. and i wondered if i could get a word of advice from some of you? I have three strong choices all in the running for who gets my affections, and while i might be missing the master themselves, i have the majority of the crew selections for all three... Hoffman is the first. I have been eyeing him since around the start of book 2. I was massivly distracted by Collodi, Kaeris, and Lillith at the time, so i missed the boat, but i have picked up the Guardian already for my Lady J crew, not to mention i have my share of Archanist constructs for use in a pinch, so his box alone would give me plenty of options. He seems to be what i wished Ramos was when i played him. A more buff and combat based crew, and less of a Resser crew. Not that i didn't like Ramos, he just wasn't what i was looking for at the time. Leveticus is the second one... with a huge selection of Undead minions and constructs in my collection, Levi would be cheep. all i need are steampunk abominations as i picked up Levi, Alice, Waifs, and the desolation engine all before his box came out... He seems like a break from the conventional rules of the game, not to mention the learning curve would be exciting since no one else really plays like him. the downside? while he can have intersting builds, i fear it would boil down to the needing of his signature crew pieces, and i'm not crazy about the abominations or the ashes and dust... My last choice is going to be an auto "NO" from many of you... but it's Molly. I play Ressers a lot, Doug, Nico, I have Seamus though he hasn't seen much action since may of last year... x.x I know she's a pretty expensive support piece, and a lot of people don't like her... but there is just something about her... i feel obligated to try her out. Now, i'm going to proxy pieces for most of these and try them out, and i'm not looking to pick anything else up until after Adepticon, but i thought i might ask and see if any of you Hoffman, Leveticus or Molly players (lol molly players...) had any suggestions for them. thanks in advance... best answer gets you a plate of digital cookies!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Norton Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The world needs more Molly love. She's just such a great sculpt and I'm certain she will turn into the next Marcus once enough people are playing her and collaborating on tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInnomen Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Y'know, if it were my call, I'd be playing Molly because everybody "automatically says 'NO'" to the idea. Just because I'm rather resistant to the idea that I "have to" play a certain group even in friendly or non-tournament matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I agree to ignore the hate and play what you like. I say this a lot but if no one plays a Master or Henchman there is no chance that anyone is going to figure out all there secrets. That being said Play Hoffman...YEAR OF THE RAM!! Or not, play what you enjoy. That is generally what makes people happiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well, i do plan on getting Molly at some point anyway, i'm just not sure who would be the best change form the Marcus lineup that i've been pretty focused on. Levi is mostly an urge to make use of the models i've had for so long... the real throwdown is between Molly and Hoffman... maybe i'll play them against one another to fight for my affections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well you can do my approach. Put you head on your desk and put each model next to your ear. Then listen very carefully to them and see which one wants to be played more. Note this technique works better in poorly ventilated areas right after you sprayed a lot of primer, and/or did a lot of gluing(especially if you used a glue accelerant) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hmm... that is just crazy enough to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Let me say right up front that I am pretty much the #1 Member of the Molly fan club. It is well known in our gaming circle that if anyone brings out Molly that for some reason I cease trying to to achieve objectives and my entire game experience turns into an attempt to destroy the impostor Molly. One of my biggest failing's with Seamus is that I have an extremely difficult time not taking them together, which makes for playing him very difficult. Molly has a few glaring issues you have to deal with, which become somewhat exacerbated if you use her as Master. #1) Molly is slow. Molly's walk is 4, and she doesn't have an effective AP modifier to effectively move a little and then use her abilities. Her Aura doesn't affect her, which is a shame, and in order to take advantage of it for her other models you have to cluster close and not get too far ahead of Molly, which means it is very difficult to take advantage of. #2) Molly has too many abilities that only affect living Models. Molly's Necrotic Spray only affects living models, Molly's impossible knowledge only buffs undead vs. living. Molly's Reveal Philip also again only affects living models. Why Necrotic spray couldn't just affect non undead/ non-ressers like Black Blood, or just everyone, like Kaeris' burning armor, I have no idea. #3) Molly is suit dependent... extremely suit dependent. Molly needs a specific (mostly crows, but 1 mask, and it's an important one) suit to use her Wp Trigger, her Df Trigger, Her undead construction, her Philosophy of uncertainty, and her whispered secret. In a faction already very dependent on using a particular suit, Molly just amps up the dependance. #4) Molly is a high maintenance date. She really likes your cards, and she wants to use them, a lot of them. If you consider that you want Molly to copy a spell to use, it is most likely going to take 2 cards to work. If you want to use her Def trigger, its going to require you to drop three cards from your hand, unless you are lucky enough to top deck a crow, in which case she'll only take 2. As Ressers have no real cost effective way to gain access to arcane reservoir (the only way I know of is to hire Jack Daw for 10 SS or a Librarian for 8) you often don't have the hand to really shine with Molly. #5) Molly's abilities are either poorly worded, or badly designed. Her Superior Dead ability is the first example. I'm almost certain that the intent was to allow Molly to basically operate like Nicodem, but in reverse, IE that she could say "Oh, I'm not undead!" whenever something with special anti undead capabilities tried to get her. Currently anything that gains bonuses vs undead works on her because those abilities don't target. As far as I know Molly's Superior Dead ability protects her from exactly one ability, possessed by one model. Since coming out she has also had her Philosophy of Uncertainty reworded to prevent it from affecting Masters. This was a serious power drop for her, and one of the major deterrents to an opposing master getting close to her was removed. I'm of two minds about this as it does bring it more in line with similar abilities like Colette's Disappearing act, but the range is so low, and Molly is so slow, with no real movement shenanigans, I wonder if this was necessary. In addition her best ability, in my opinion, Terrible Secret is worded in an ambiguous manner. Her Debuff is certainly amazing...ish, as it is definitely the strongest debuff available in the game... except for just outright killing the model, and the anti-attack portion of the spell can effectively lock an opposing model down from being actively aggressive against your crew, provided you go before them. However the anti-defensive ability is a source of contention. Currently in the strictest interpretation of the RAW her Debuff only works on Df duels even though the wording of the spell says Defense and not Df. The Marshalls have set the precedent in multiple other threads that a stat and the spelled out name of the state, IE Range vs Rg, are not always equivalent. The RM clearly spells out what an attack is, but gives no concrete definition of what a Defense flip is, as opposed to a Df Flip. There is numerous references to Defense, and Defender in a duel, even when not the subject of a Df duel, but again it is murky, and was one of the questions that was asked in the FAQ thread. If you interpret it in the strictest way you also experience something very frustrating. Molly has no way to take advantage of her own debuff, as every offensive ability she has only targets Wp. Currently my group is interpreting it in the more generous way to Molly, that a Defense flip is what one player makes when the subject of a defined attack flip, even though we all agree in the strictest interpretation of the rules that this is shaky ground to stand on. There is one other Model I know of that could benefit from this clarification as well, but as it is an already strong model I doubt many people would like to see it get stronger, even marginally. #5) Molly as a master suffers the most limited crew selection of all the henchman, and also has the most glaring holes in her crew lineup. If you play Molly you may take these models: Grave Spirit, Necrotic Machine, Malifaux Child, Student of Conflict, Rotten Belle, Dead Doxy, Madame Sybelle, Crooligans, Rogue Necromancy. You have access to no really good fast objective runners, Crooligans look good on paper, but are not very great at this job in my experience. You have no real effective threat to put out on the table. You have access to exactly one threatening piece, which because of it's height is extremely difficult to hid from the enemy. Add to this that it has a fragility that leads most Resser players to agree they would never hire it, but they would summon it. Molly cannot summon it, so she must hire it... and in most of the games I've played, since it is the only threat in your crew, it rarely lives past turn 1 against top tier masters, or turn 2 against most of the others. All those negatives said I still love Molly, and really wish she was better. She is by far the absolute weakest of all the Henchmen, despite being the second most expensive, and in most people's opinions that I've talked to, not worth her cost. She is something that although not terribly effective does have a psychological edge vs. some opponents. She is terribly annoying if the right situations arise. One game I used her in against Raspy I luckily won initiative every round, and spent the whole game keeping Raspy's dmg spells locked down, as they are all pretty much attacks, and with the double negative twist she rarely met the casting values. She really falls into a category that puts her in an odd situation. She's not dangerous or often important enough to warrent an opponent going after her, as she isn't going to really do much to the game, but if he ignores her she will keep tossing out VERY annoying debuffs at the opposing crew, stealing their effectiveness and making them more fragile. Finally, what I'm hoping for, as I doubt wyrd will do any major revisions to her for some time, if ever, is to finally see what other Horrors will be available to her. Last year I remember before she came out people discussing her and saying they found her weak and underwhelming, and the response from some o the play testers was that it was because the full set up of horrors had not been revealed yet, and all would become clear once they were... assuming that is still the case I'm putting my hopes that the next book will reveal the Secret strength Molly was made for, as I have to say, Crooligans... Not seeing any real strengths or synergy there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Haha, yeah, i've been following a couple other threads about Molly... i was even the OP on a thread where calmdown and you laid into her pretty good. and while all that makes sense to me, and i completely understand why she isn't that great... i just really feel like she's a henchman i would use. I'm not overly concerned with competitive play... the most competitive master i currently use is a Marcus crew. Still, this wouldn't be an issue if i didn't start in the guild with lady J... i feel like i owe it to the hoff to try him out... lol Of course if the Crooligans are as useless as i'm gathering... i might just grab Molly and the Rogue and pick up the hoff's box... Stupid budgets... they don't let me have any fun! i guess that's the kicker when it comes to growing up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Please don't get me wrong, I love Molly. I don't think, until you meet me, you can understand the shear level of affection I have for her character, and I'm not trying to tell you, don't play her. I think she is a sub-optimal model in many ways, and at least 2 stones over costed, and yet, when I play Seamus, there she is. I just wanted to let you know what I've found you'll be dealing with if you decide to play her. As to your budgeting... I'd pass on the Crooligans if you are low funding. The one role others have found for them is performed far more effectively by many things already in the resser line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Please don't get me wrong, I love Molly.QUOTE] I certainly did not miss your point here. I understand the ways that people feel she is underwhelming, most notably her love of high crows and her higher ss cost. But you also opened with saying you're her number 1 fan, and that you take her all the time. =] i was with you. and i thank you for giving me the less shiney aspects of her so i know what i am getting myself into. I figured between the night terrors and necropunks, i pretty much had their role covered. I do think they'd be fun to paint, but at this moment, i'm leaning towards waiting on them so i can get a house with Rebecca. That seems far more important... =] thanks again for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Actually the role used for them in the most effective sense of the word is to use them as an objective blocker, not runner. Sit them on top of an objective of the opponents and just have them put up the mist and go defensive stance every round. Added to their "I can be a Spirit Too!" Trigger they can become hard to shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Interesting... I guess i put them in the wrong catagory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 i'm leaning towards waiting on them so i can get a house with Rebecca. That seems far more important... =] I am in the same budget boat. Trying to move in with the girlfriend and be a grown-up is the worst thing for my toys habit. The kicker is I can't convince her to play so I can't even trick her into buying the models I want. Seriously, I haven't bought a cuddle gun in months. On topic though, play Hoffman. Play him because my budget doesn't let me buy him yet and he is who I want to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The kicker is I can't convince her to play so I can't even trick her into buying the models I want. Aye, i am one of the lucky ones here... my girlfriend actually reignited my Malifaux hobby after my brother moved away and i stopped playing for a few months. She shows up and BAM! we're talking about tournaments and running demos again! She's a big time Viktoria player... and frankly she's better than me... my choice in weak df masters always seems to be the edge she needs to whipe me off the table. I suppose this is why i am thinking of Hoffman, and guild constructs are tough cookies. But the downside here is, Lady Justice will always have a special guild place with me, as she was my first master in the game. So, hoffman has a disadvantage there... i think in all serisouness my "adult responsibility" will probably lead me to getting a few of the extra stuff i've neglected to buy or replace over the years... Exicutioner, Exorisist, Witchling Handler, Justice's Avatar... i really don't need to start another crew... :3 like i said, i have a problem.... hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Aye, i am one of the lucky ones here... my girlfriend actually reignited my Malifaux hobby after my brother moved away and i stopped playing for a few months. She shows up and BAM! we're talking about tournaments and running demos again! She's a big time Viktoria player... and frankly she's better than me... You are lucky, no denying that fact. And as an unemployed nerd, I spend enough time on the forums to have read once or twice that she smeared you with the Viks (this happens to me, too, almost every time I play against them.) i think in all serisouness my "adult responsibility" will probably lead me to getting a few of the extra stuff i've neglected to buy or replace over the years... Exicutioner, Exorisist, Witchling Handler, Justice's Avatar... i really don't need to start another crew... :3 like i said, i have a problem.... hahaha That is luckily what has happened with me. I got aSonnia, who costs enough I should have just bought the Hoffman box, the Exorcist, and the Witchling Handler. The last two are solid grabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ah, i have been looking around, and not a lot of people talk about the Exorcist or the Handler... any thoughts on them? i adore their sculpts and would get them for that reason alone... but from what i've read in the books, they would be quite useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusInnomen Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Aye, i am one of the lucky ones here... my girlfriend actually reignited my Malifaux hobby after my brother moved away and i stopped playing for a few months. She shows up and BAM! we're talking about tournaments and running demos again! True story: At Gencon last year, I'm at the Paint'n'Take Booth running the sign-ups table, and I get a text from my wife. It states "Honey, do you mind if I drop $150 and get us into a new miniatures game?" I replied "What game?" And she showed up about 45 minutes later with a pile of Malifaux minis. Never saw that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hahah, that's awesome! My brother actually started bringing Rebecca to our game nights at the LGS where we ran demos and hosted the Malifaux games. she took to it really fast starting with Seamus and Colette... then someone (me... eek) let her play the Viks... and she's been on a 7 game winning streak now... yikes! if she hits 14 i have to buy her the viks alt... of course, if i get 14 with McMourning, she's getting me his when it comes out. :3 EDIT: i will add... that while the advantage was clearly mine do to table size issues... i ended her streak last week with Marcus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaJo Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 You are lucky, no denying that fact. And as an unemployed nerd, I spend enough time on the forums to have read once or twice that she smeared you with the Viks (this happens to me, too, almost every time I play against them.) I've gotten my fair wins against him. Lol :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I've gotten my fair wins against him. Lol :] yeah yeah... you keep bragging. i'll get you back :* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ah, i have been looking around, and not a lot of people talk about the Exorcist or the Handler... any thoughts on them? i adore their sculpts and would get them for that reason alone... but from what i've read in the books, they would be quite useful. Their sculpts are really two of my favorite. As to thoughts, let's see: The Exorcist is good when he does his thing. In the games I have played with him so far he suffers from being slow... so slow... and a little bit of the "Samael effect," in that, once your opponent knows he can wreck non-living models, they go after him. On the bright side though, like I said, he can wreck non-living models. Both weapons being magical is really useful and his melee weapon ignores HtW and Armor AND gets a to damage against non-living (that includes constructs. Take that Arachnid Swarm)... if you can get him there. All in all, a solid 6 stone model. The Witchling Handler is awesome. I have only had the chance to field her twice as I just got her last week but in both games she performed better than I expected. She adds a finesse that the Guild has been lacking in. She is a 7 stone force multiplier. Hit someone with the greatsword? They lose all suits associated with their Ca (and recieve to cast during it's next activation! on a trigger) That's a power too great to overlook. Her damage track isn't too shabby on either her sword or her pistol (there is a non-auto crit strike on her pistol.) She really benefits from being with a bunch of Stalkers, which has the obvious downside of bunching you up, but the buffs she gives and receives from being near the Stalkers are worth it. She has the ability to wreck crews that rely on casting, adding a little touch of Sonnia to any crew she is in. Hope that helps at all. I've been pretty happy with both models so far since I play against a fair amount of Rezzers and Arcanists. ---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ---------- I've gotten my fair wins against him. Lol :] VIKS ARE BROKEN ERRATA! ERRATA! I NEED ERRATA TO EVERY MODEL THAT BEATS ME! You Viktoria running cheater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The Witchling Handler is awesome. I have only had the chance to field her twice as I just got her last week but in both games she performed better than I expected. She adds a finesse that the Guild has been lacking in. She is a 7 stone force multiplier. Hit someone with the greatsword? They lose all suits associated with their Ca (and recieve to cast during it's next activation! on a trigger) That's a power too great to overlook. Her damage track isn't too shabby on either her sword or her pistol (there is a non-auto crit strike on her pistol.) She really benefits from being with a bunch of Stalkers, which has the obvious downside of bunching you up, but the buffs she gives and receives from being near the Stalkers are worth it. She has the ability to wreck crews that rely on casting, adding a little touch of Sonnia to any crew she is in. Good to know. She seems like a sure fire pick up for me. I love the sword trigger... that would ruin the dreamer or colette's day. ( i play the two of them quite a bit. and am always looking for another reason to make them not "Overpowered" ... hehe) The Exorcist is good when he does his thing. In the games I have played with him so far he suffers from being slow... so slow... and a little bit of the "Samael effect," in that, once your opponent knows he can wreck non-living models, they go after him. On the bright side though, like I said, he can wreck non-living models. Both weapons being magical is really useful and his melee weapon ignores HtW and Armor AND gets a to damage against non-living (that includes constructs. Take that Arachnid Swarm)... if you can get him there. All in all, a solid 6 stone model. When i saw how slow he was, my first thought was to pine box him and move him out with a marshall, or to have Lucius use Reinforcements on him once he got closer to the action. either of these would result in him being dropped at the feet of the enemy, and yet i would have enough control to keep him in his "sweet spot" VIKS ARE BROKEN ERRATA! ERRATA! I NEED ERRATA TO EVERY MODEL THAT BEATS ME! You Viktoria running cheater. careful now... that's my girlfriend you're talking about there! she's liable to challenge you to a game... EDIT: now she has... the official challenge has been placed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 When i saw how slow he was, my first thought was to pine box him and move him out with a marshall I don't have its card in front of me, but if I remember correctly he can't be buried or sacrificed like the other death marshals as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ah, it would make sense i suppose, that he can't be burried. lol. must have overlooked that. Thanks for the heads up, i'll double check that when i get home. thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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