Leveticus tips and tricks

[Lucidicide]

Very thorough analytics there again and you indeed gather all the resources in these bad matchup. You have a solid grip of the mechanics, sir!

Based on our join dates, it looks like we've both been playing for a very long time, and if you're like me you started playing before you joined the board! That helps get a firm understanding of the mechanics down.

Anyway, your list and my list both show one thing about the theory -- we can sit here all day and give counter examples. I mentioned the problems with the Silurids, and you mention their upsides. I could point out more issues, and I'm sure you could cite more advantages.

At the end of the day, keeping Hollow Waifs safe is impossible. Just make sure you can make your opponent pay if they dedicate resources to killing them.

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One thing I will stress to any new Leveticus players reading this: Keeping your Hollow Waifs safe reads like a simple task. It is not. You must understand not only your own crew, but also your opponent's crew. You have to understand their threat ranges and what you can do to mitigate it. Leveticus is, in many ways, the easiest Master to kill in the game. In other ways, he's one of the hardest. Keeping your Hollow Waifs safe is a practice in knowing what your opponent might bring at you.

What's more, it's seeing the big picture of the board. Utilizing terrain defensively and offensively. Prepping your Waifs positioning for next turn, and making sure you're OK with Leveticus spawning to either of them. It is quite an elaborate dance.

A "trick" I like to pull against non-graverobbing crews. I like to turn my SPAs into corpses if I feel my Waifs are unsafe. I activate Leveticus late in the turn and create a new Waif to replace one my opponent killed. I've even spent actions making healing flips so Leveticus will have the Wds to cast Entropic Transformation (he needs 4+).

One game I played where I screwed up with my Waifs, I had a Lelu on Leveticus, no Waifs, and Leveticus on 1 with 1ss left. If I burned the stone to save Leveticus from the 1Wd, the Lelu would hit him later in the Closing to kill him. I managed to run Ashes and Dust over, sacrificed Rusty Alyce (at full health), giving Leveticus the healing flip he needed to survive.

You'll run into all sorts of crazy situations playing Leveticus and trying to keep him alive. Know your crew, know their crew, and spare no expense.

[graeme27uk]

As a Leveticus newbie, I would like to know what you mean by "playing him aggressively"?

His spells are awesome, though requiring a 10+ to cast Necrotic Unmaking. Which in my book is quite high. Unnatural Wasting is pretty good, though it requires either a :tomes or :crows at 8+ to cast which is again quite specific and reasonably high.

So his spells are quite difficult to get off without burning SS (of which he won't have that many).

He has no ranged attack other than his spells, and he is only ever really going to take out one model per turn if they are in range of UW and NU. This assumes they don't resist either spell.

Whilst I like Leveticus, I find that usually his minions are worse off than the other team and he simply doesn't have the movement without aid, to get him to where he can blast away.

Maybe I am playing him wrong or with the wrong crew.

[Lucidicide]

Necrotic Unmaking needs a 9+ to cast, as it's a 16 and he's a cast 7.

Regardless, I find that his spells are pretty easy to cast. Unnatural Wasting, Necrotic Unmaking, and Death Touch tend to be his work horses. I find that it's fairly easy to get both off without a soulstone by using Death's Lessons and cards in hand. Some turns it's a problem, it's true, but very rarely.

Additionally, resisting usually won't happen. If you take a minion with Df 5 and put it up against a minimum CC 16, they need a 12 to resist. That's with a 9 on Ca and a Df 5 for Rst. Any fluctuation in either direction and it'll probably be outside of possible to resist.

Taking out one model per turn is awesome, particularly when you can almost guarantee it because of the high Rst totals. Once some things have been injured, he can do more. On a lucky turn you could even get 3 SPAs via Necrotic Unmaking. But that's a very lucky turn.

As for playing him aggressively, I'm not sure specifically where you're referencing. I mention to position defensively but play offensively. Is that what you mean? If so, what I mean is that your first priority with Leveticus is making sure he's around the next turn. This, if done correctly, shouldn't take any of your resources. It's a positional thing. Once you've got that, all your resources should go into attacking. I almost never waste a card on defense or resists.

Lastly, with the crew... I'm surprised to hear you say that his minions are worse off. I don't really know what that means for you, but he has some amazing choices. If you are using a crew like this...

Leveticus

Bete Noire

Canine Remains x1

Rotten Belle x1

Steampunk Abomination x3

Watcher x1

Soutstone Miner x1

...then I could point out some troubles. First, SPAs die super easily and you're not starting with enough to get a DE (which also dies super easily). This means that before 9 points of your list becomes particularly useful (especially given Insignificant) you need to have already engaged and killed something. That can be a problem.

Second, Rotten Belle + Watcher = 7 points. The Watcher can grab you objectives, but if you're not playing an objective strategy, it's going to be a waste. It dies very easily and doesn't do any damage. The Rotten Belle is good for Lure, but not much else. It survives decently, but won't do any damage. The two are support models. My question to you becomes: What are they supporting?

Third, the SS Miner, while nice (I often use him myself), needs a specific set of circumstances to work in. He's best, like Leve, when he's killing himself. You have no way to heal him with Leveticus. I find he's nice to gain a couple of soulstones off Waifs or the initial dog and then to be a nuisance. As an offensive model, he will almost always under-perform.

Lastly, Bete. I know there's a lot of love for Bete, but I wouldn't recommend her for you. She requires a 10+ to be worth the points. Leveticus can't stack his hand. These two combined make her a risky model in a Leveticus crew, and I would argue that Leveticus will do better with that 10+ (you're not going to get a lot of them in any given turn). She's expensive (in terms of hiring costs and cards in game) for a 2/3/4 profile that you don't even keep on the table. This lets people target other things. Bete is your heavy hitter.

In summary, you have nothing but the Belle which can really take a hit. You're using a couple of models that want high cards, which ends up being a drain on Leveticus' power. You're spending 7 points on support and 9 on models that won't do much unless you get another one of them (and they drop like flies when attacked). You'll end up using Leveticus' resources on Bete and then spending Wds and AP trying to bring back the SPAs that died instead of dealing damage. Your ability to do a good amount of damage is pretty much limited to Leveticus, and Bete's power on the table will flicker in and out of play.

I'd go with fewer, stronger minions and see how it feels.

[graeme27uk]

Ok, so is it best to take NO Steampunk Abom's then as Leve should create them in game? I have read opinions on both sides of the argument.

So fewer and stronger, I am assuming then A&D are in that category.

Dead Rider people seem to be rather keen on with Leveticus.

Killjoy?

Rogue Necromancy?

Flesh Construct?

If I take fewer minions, then do I not risk being out-activated and so the other side can just pour their attacks onto me, whilst I can only take out theirs bit by bit. Levie has no way of healing any of his team, so they have to be pretty self-sufficient.

[CrouchingMoose]

Killjoy can be a good option, as can the dead rider.

However, i honestly wouldn't take Rogue Necromancy or a flesh construct with Levi.

Other options for big hitters that I would consider would be any of the other riders (although dead rider is the most durable)and ashes and dust is unkillable if you play him right (plus he can provide healing flips to the rest of your crew).

A lot of what lucidicide is saying is perfect, and while I think the crew your were asking about does not have enough hitting power, you don't necessarily need fewer stronger models to get that hitting power. If your doing an objective based stratgey, then look at collodi and his marionettes. Indivudually, they may not be able to do much, but with collodi leading them, you can get off up to 15 attacks with them (not all may hit, but its the sheer number that takes down most opponents). Combine that with their ability to fly across the board and cap objectives and they become a great option that doesn't lower you model count while also maintaining the ability to companion with each other and pile on top of a minion.

[Lucidicide]

Ok, so is it best to take NO Steampunk Abom's then as Leve should create them in game? I have read opinions on both sides of the argument.

I'm more saying that if you are going to hire SPAs, hire all 4.

So fewer and stronger

I'm recommending this mostly because of what you stated your problem was, which is that your minions seemed to be at a disadvantage. I think fewer and stronger is the way to go for you right now.

If I take fewer minions, then do I not risk being out-activated and so the other side can just pour their attacks onto me, whilst I can only take out theirs bit by bit. Levie has no way of healing any of his team, so they have to be pretty self-sufficient.

This depends on the team. Models like the Dead Rider and Pale Rider will heal themselves. So will models like Lazarus. It's true that being out activated is a problem, but usually when that happens it means your models are better than theirs. You have to learn to either deal with out activation or with weaker models. For now, I'd say risk the out activation.

A lot of what lucidicide is saying is perfect, and while I think the crew your were asking about does not have enough hitting power, you don't necessarily need fewer stronger models to get that hitting power. If your doing an objective based stratgey, then look at collodi and his marionettes. Indivudually, they may not be able to do much, but with collodi leading them, you can get off up to 15 attacks with them (not all may hit, but its the sheer number that takes down most opponents). Combine that with their ability to fly across the board and cap objectives and they become a great option that doesn't lower you model count while also maintaining the ability to companion with each other and pile on top of a minion.

Thanks

And definitely. Fewer and stronger isn't always the way to go. Collodi can be great with Leveticus. Get in a few more games, see how fewer stronger things work, and take it from there!

Good luck

[Hjelmen]

Thank you for all the advice so far, Lucidicide!

Currently, I'm thinking that Necropunks do quite well as objective grabbers (Watchers are probably better, but I'm not a fan of them (maybe if I could convert the model into something resembling The Winged Beast from 9... hmmm )), but I was also looking towards Crooligans. The Mist seems like a good idea to keep Waifs safe-ish behind it, and they're resonably fast when going for objectives and interacts.

Does anyone have any experiences with the Crooligans with Leveticus?

[Twisted Metal]

Yes but in the end I felt as though they were lacking. The mist helps block LOS but remember that it's a two way street. There were several instances where my opponent actually hid in the mist from Levi's spells.

In terms of movement watches and punks are faster.

[magicpockets]

Just my 2p (not sure if this has been mentioned yet but just a flying visit) -

Crooligans are a bad idea as you can only ever take two of them (due to Special Forces restrictions) unless you pay for Molly (another bad idea imo), they're 4ss rather than 3ss and - crucially - they stop you taking other special forces like Collodi or MS&U assets, which are a lot more useful.

Also, re Necropunks, they're okay but the :masks requirement on leap makes them very unreliable, especially as Levi can't be counted on to maintain cards in his had form turn to turn and as Levi will likely make better use of that high card in his hand than a leaping Necropunk.

I've found watchers are very useful for objectives and delivering KillJoy(slow to die FTW) and the only issue I see with having them in the crew is they don't work alongside Lazarus who is AWESOMENESS and will be getting a lot of table time in Levi crews I think.

[Hjelmen]

Good points, especially about the Special Forces limitations.

I'm also very much interested in Lazarus. It looks almost like the perfect minion for Leveticus, but from my PoV that's just theoryfauxing; I haven't actually fielded him yet

[Lucidicide]

Lazarus who is AWESOMENESS and will be getting a lot of table time in Levi crews I think.

I haven't proxied him yet, have you? I'd be interested in hearing experiences with him.

In just looking at him, he does seem good. However, I'm worried that he's competing for Rusty Alyce's spot. Although, in many ways, he is better than Rusty. In other ways, he seems like he'll be worse. I'm just not really sure what to think.

Anyone have any actual game time with Lazzy?

[graeme27uk]

Who/what is Lazarus?

[Lucidicide]

Who/what is Lazarus?

He's in Twisting Fates, he's an Outcast minion. A Construct.

[magicpockets]

(re lazarus) I'm worried that he's competing for Rusty Alyce's spot.

Eurgh, I don't have a spot for her - never seen her as anything than a complete waste of 9ss. Be awesome if you can do to Alyce what you did for A&D earlier (if you have time though!)

[Lucidicide]

Eurgh, I don't have a spot for her - never seen her as anything than a complete waste of 9ss. Be awesome if you can do to Alyce what you did for A&D earlier (if you have time though!)

There's your first problem right there! I wouldn't bother paying 9ss for an 8ss minion

---------- Post added at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

Near the bottom, I added a section on her (to be fair, I think a lot of why she's good is covered in the other entries, though): http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?30206-Lucidicide-s-Lovin-Leveticus-Guide&p=385293&viewfull=1#post385293