Spiku Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I was told recently that the (2) Deliver a Message action was changed to require you to target the master; meaning that Ht1 models cannot deliver a message to Hamelin. How does this work with The Dreamer and having models close to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Vmag Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well the first step would be to confirm that this has indeed been a formal change. No use problem solving a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Undisclosed Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'd imagine it would have no impact on Delivering the Message 'This model cannot be targeted by an enemy Action while it is within 3" of a friendly Nightmare that could be targeted by the Action or could be a legal target of the Action if it was a melee attack.' You couldn't target the other Nightmare for that action because it isn't a Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 von Clausewitz Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I was told recently that the (2) Deliver a Message action was changed to require you to target the master; meaning that Ht1 models cannot deliver a message to Hamelin. How does this work with The Dreamer and having models close to him? Whoever told you that the interact action had been changed to require targeting needs to provide some kind of citation. The rules manual says nothing about the action requiring a target, and the strategy is not one of the core strategies in the Gaining Grounds document, so there is no change there. Unless this person can produce some sort of evidence supporting his claim I see no reason to play the strategy any way besides how it is written in the Rules Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fetid Strumpet Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 And, adding to Von Clausewitz's point, it wouldn't matter if you did have to target the Dreamer. His shadowy form requires him to be able to shift the targeted action off to another legal target. There won't be another Nightmare Master nearby to shift it off onto, and if there was your deliver a message would still work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Spiku Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Fetid Strumpet: Rather like Undisclosed said? I do not own the dreamer, I am just aware that he has a target restriction of some sort; thank you for the citation. Equally I have no evidence to the statement provided, nor has it come up yet in a game played since it was suggested. Such is why I bring it up and why it was phrased as "changed", as the rules manual does not support it being a targeted action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 magicpockets Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hi, It was me that told Spiku about this ruling. A long time a go there was a question about doing Deliver the Message on Pandora and whether you needed to do the Wp->Wp duel to to complete it. It was confirmed that you did as DTM targetted the other model. The problem is, I've tried to search for the post and it seems the search function isn't as good as the old one so I'm getting billions of results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Gollum528 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I would like to see an official response to this. It came up recently in a tournament in regards to steal relic vs. Kirai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Cadilon Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi, It was me that told Spiku about this ruling. A long time a go there was a question about doing Deliver the Message on Pandora and whether you needed to do the Wp->Wp duel to to complete it. It was confirmed that you did as DTM targetted the other model. The problem is, I've tried to search for the post and it seems the search function isn't as good as the old one so I'm getting billions of results. Something about this just doesn't seem 'fair' to me. Pandora being able to soul stone to keep the opponent from getting the strategy when the opponent can't do the same seems unbalanced. On the other hand, it's not the most unbalanced master/strategy combo out there, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tat2dbowler Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just curious, has anyone found this ruling or heard anything official. I've actually had it come up more than once. We just let it happen because it doesn't say anything about targeting to interact. Still would like to see something official though. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I would say that it has already been answered (Rules Marshals dont always chime in on every question, especially if it has been satisfactorily answered by others). Because no one but a leader model may be targetted by the Deliver a Message interact action (page 91 of the Rules Manual) the Dreamers Shadowy Form ability is a non-issue (unless they happen to release a Henchman model that is also a Nightmare). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Asphyxxious Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I would say that it has already been answered (Rules Marshals dont always chime in on every question, especially if it has been satisfactorily answered by others). Because no one but a leader model may be targetted by the Deliver a Message interact action (page 91 of the Rules Manual) the Dreamers Shadowy Form ability is a non-issue (unless they happen to release a Henchman model that is also a Nightmare). From the look of his post it seems that he is not asking anything about The Dreamer. More focused on if it actually requires you to target period. I have had this come up before too with Pandora. I just let him "target" her with it without taking the WP test because I wasn't sure. I wouldn't mind seeing something official on this either, and if there is something I must have missed it. Edited March 29, 2012 by Asphyxxious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tat2dbowler Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I understand that marshals don't chime in on everything, but doesn't it usually get thrown into resolved rules questions if the players have sufficiently answered the question? Also, the dreamer thing is pretty obvious I was asking about Pandora and Hamelin. Another thing, magic pockets said there was a thread where this was answered, but he can't find it and I can't find it either. I was curious if someone did find it or maybe another thread with a ruling. Just be nice to know one way or the other. Thanks!!! :-D Edited March 29, 2012 by tat2dbowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 magicpockets Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The problem is search is broken (and not in an OP way!) so stuff is really hard to find now. It's a conspiracy I tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Buhallin Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 While the concerns over the impact of having to target the master to Deliver a Message are presented, what happens if you don't? Without targeting it's just "within" which means you could, for example, Deliver from the opposite side of a wall. Obviously some issues there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tat2dbowler Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I know there will be issues either way. I just want to know which way it is so I can explain it to my LGG when they ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Asphyxxious Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The only "concern" I have is that it is not clear whether you have to target or not. If you have to target that doesn't bother me, and if you don't have to target as you said and can do it through walls that doesn't bother me either. Seems like a rare situation anyway. I am just curious as to how it is intended so it will be played correctly in the area. That's all. Whatever the ruling is won't bother me at all. So I am not sure what you're getting at exactly Buhallin. Doesn't seem like anyone has said that one way will be broken and the other way will not. More like people are just curious as to the intent of how it is supposed to function. So basically I don't understand what you are responding to at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fading Memory Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Interact Actions do not require targets and Deliver a Message is an Interact Action. So by following the definition of what an Interact is, there is no targeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Omenbringer Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I understand that marshals don't chime in on everything, but doesn't it usually get thrown into resolved rules questions if the players have sufficiently answered the question? In an ideal world yes they would automatically be moved however it doesn't always happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Buhallin Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 So I am not sure what you're getting at exactly Buhallin. Doesn't seem like anyone has said that one way will be broken and the other way will not. More like people are just curious as to the intent of how it is supposed to function. So basically I don't understand what you are responding to at all. Uhm, OK... What I was getting at was that some people - the OP included, as a well-known Gremlin player asking about Hamelin - seemed concerned over the rules interaction if it required a target. I was merely pointing out that there's some strangeness in this either way, and it was worth considering both sides of it. Nobody seemed to have brought up the "shouting through a wall" aspect of Deliver as written, so I thought it was an interesting facet of the discussion. Since you're worried about intent, that would seem to be one of those things that people usually identify as "unintended" right? I'm not sure exactly what triggered the (1) Defensive Stance in there, but I wasn't really arguing for or against anyone or anything being broken or not broken. If it makes you feel any better, I agree with Fading Memory on the interpretation. Interact doesn't require a target, Deliver a Message says only within and does not indicate a target, so you wouldn't have to deal with any targeting restrictions or require LOS. Barring someone finding the thread that Pockets remembers, that's the rule. I'll leave the intent to the marshals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tat2dbowler Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks everyone!!! Just was curious what to tell players who asked! I didn't see anywhere it said target, but on the other hand I'm fairly certain magic pockets wouldn't make up that there was a ruling otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 magicpockets Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 ^^ You'd be surprised, didn't you hear Stolen were Rare 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
Spiku
I was told recently that the (2) Deliver a Message action was changed to require you to target the master; meaning that Ht1 models cannot deliver a message to Hamelin.
How does this work with The Dreamer and having models close to him?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
21 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.