Does the toss trigger affect dead models?

[Turbodog]

So my peacekeeper is good at killing things. The other day it so happened that he killed a construct - with a hit that had the toss trigger (by chance, had a mask).

Does that mean I get to have a little control over where the scrap counters show up?

I see two possibilities:

1. (the way we played it at the time). Model takes too much damage from peacekeeper hit (and "dies"). Toss trigger moves model base a few inches. Scrap counters are then placed in base contact and model is removed.

2. (not the way we did it). Model just immediately dies and toss has no effect. Scrap is placed right there.

Related to this, I then had two more thoughts...

3. If you have a model that explodes on death (like papa loco or a witchling stalker) - can you use toss to move it before it does it's damage pulse? (possibly resulting in fewer of your models taking the explosion damage).

and

4. Can you toss a stitched when you kill it the first time, so that it's "does not die" version is somewhere else (potentially behind something that blocks its line of sight)?

If it helps, on my card it says:

"Toss: After damaging defender with a paired mechanical claws strike, push defender 1" per wound inflicted, ignoring intervening models and terrain."

I've been thoroughly confused on the recent "after damaging, when damaging, when suffering" timing discussions, so I'm at a loss on this one.

[von Clausewitz]

Toss does not go off if the model dies. Death occurs during the damage step. Any effects that occur upon death will happen, then you check to see if the toss trigger is still legal. Since the model has already been removed from play Toss will have no effect.

[Wolfgar]

Your Peacekeeper goes to toss the enemy and said enemy turns to little squishy bits and jelly on the ground.

[Fading Memory]

Toss does not go off if the model dies. Death occurs during the damage step. Any effects that occur upon death will happen, then you check to see if the toss trigger is still legal. Since the model has already been removed from play Toss will have no effect.

A "Dead" model may be Tossed. The Toss trigger goes into effect before the model's "Dead Status" is checked. So models that explode on death may be tossed out of the way before they explode.

[von Clausewitz]

A "Dead" model may be Tossed. The Toss trigger goes into effect before the model's "Dead Status" is checked. So models that explode on death may be tossed out of the way before they explode.

This is an official ruling from Keltheos: "Essentially, a model inflicting damage initiates the damage resolution sequence, which is followed to the end, and then any Triggers or effects that key off “after dealing/inflicting damage” occur. So Next Target, Onslaught take effect after resolving their associated damage. Boom occurs during the damage resolution and application sequence as a consequence of the model being killed." (italics added)

The "Toss" trigger occurs after the damage resolution sequence. Therefore "BOOM!" will trigger and the model will be removed from play before the "Toss" trigger occurs. As the dead model is no longer in play "Toss" will fizzle because it has no legal target.

Here is a link to the ruling:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?20176-Order-of-resolution-of-triggers-(eg-Ronin-Run-Through-vs-BOOM!)&p=230593&viewfull=1#post230593

[Keltheos]

Moral: don't kill your playthings before you want to chuck them somewhere.

[Turbodog]

In your link to Keltheos' post, I don't see a bullet for:"After damaging" timing

Edit: Kel, just sent you a PM. Probably can answer my question better and not tie this thread in knots.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Turbodog

[Dustcrusher]

Welp, I got this wrong today. I thought Taelor's Knockbacktrigger would work before BOOM! takes effect, but the opposite is true.

Fortunately, in demonstrating the need for lots of terrain (i.e. getting destroyed playing Viks vs. Perdita), it didn't affect the outcome of the game.