Nekima

[JisaacT]

Is she worth the cost? Real money wise and ss wise.

She costs alot of SS and has gotten some major errata changes but I didnt know if she was vital to a Lilith crew. She seems like alot of fun by addings masks for flay and for sprint on the tots. Being big and big on melee it seems like she would get taken down quickly.

Thoughts? Not too much seen on lilith these days.

[M_Ruckuss]

Thoughts? Not too much seen on lilith these days.

I still play with her, and actually enjoy running her with electic lists. Tuco was a great idea bur I just dont see his worth for ss, and the twins I dont take on principle. That realy only leaves the BBS and Nekima as the Nephilim I will run with her in addition to her Book 1 minions. Compare this to Zoraida, who can run a slurid list, the same nephilim based list, collodi based doll lists- maybe her minions (or rather a slight lack in variety?) has caused a little fall in her popularity...I dont know, maybe others feel differently?

Nekima can work in a grow list, but BBS can do the same role for a cheaper cost. Play and see!

[JisaacT]

Man is Tuco out yet? anyways She seems like she would be hard to carry around. ht4 is a pretty big pain! Does she give off that much of an advantage or not?

[M_Ruckuss]

She gives you blood counters, but so do BBS shamans, and she makes it easier for the tots to grow. She also has some nice triggers on her sword. Tbh I would sooner take a BBS and some desparate mercs and take a mature nephilim. I also like the hooded rider and the primordial magic with Lilith, and have high hopes for the mysterious, brutal and hodge podge effigys.

[Sybaris]

Nekima currently suffers from weirdly implemented rules atm. It almost feels as she is not complete or temporary. In my opinion, she should have been designed as a fighter with some support abilities, rather than the opposite (supporting caracter with decent offensive ability).

As it is, she got pigeon-holed into a growth list, and not much else. Although she is often cited as a good target for Zoraida's Obey, her cost makes it imperative to use her support abilities, which are almost strictly oriented toward Nephilim.

The list of weird things goes on. This is not a wishlist, but rather a collection of factors that makes her a dubious model atm:

1. Not able to lead crews as henchwoman

2. Not terrifying (personal pet peeve as she is described explicitely as being so in the fluff). Irresistible is ok, but it doesn't make her immune to terrifying

3. Weapon isn't magical or able to reduce opponents armor. Nephilim lists lack magic weapons. Could have been a trigger.

4. Defense is low, while Ht4 ensures you get shot at.

5. No spells per se, so Ca is wasted.

6. Limited range of supporting and offensive abilities.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Sybaris

[Q'iq'el]

Short: Not worth it.

Long: If you already have her, you can make a fun list with her which can still work, because Neverborn are generally good. Such a list would also include the Twins (possibly 2 Lelus and 1 Lilitu) or it would be a list spamming Young Nephilim (Take 5 Tots and 2 Desperate Mercs, make 5 Young out of the mix, profit).

The reason for Twins-inclusion is simple... Nekima is big and unwieldy. That 50mm base has to land somewhere after each leg of your movement - even with her seemingly long range she'll be going around bigger obstacles as if she never got fly in the first place. To remedy that you need to use Lure and Transposition wisely.

Outside of Growing/Maturing Nephilim, her abilities can be used in two ways - you can boost Tot/Young damage (the later to impressive levels) or you can boost Tots speed (give them fly and extra mask and they'll be covering 20~30" a turn in straight lines). If you don't spam Young, you want to profit more from the new-found Tots' prowess. A good way to do it is to use Tots as beacons and Transposition slower models in their place - Nekima and Lelu are the candidates (or Lilith, if you cast with Totem). Twins give you another layer of tricks on the top of Transposition (Tele Lelu in, kill something and Lure him back to safety, using the fact he can simultaneously activate with Lilitu regardless of the distance).

Shaman is the model you take when you don't want to take Nekima, IMHO... but I'm still not sold on him either. Maybe with 2 Matures...

Her obvious weakness is size, limited freedom of movement, inability to hide and low defensive stats. If your opponent is competent, he will paralyze, burry or simply kill her and you'll never get the points back. Obviously, you can't prevent it on most tables. If you have a table where she can hide, how are you going to use her? (no Diving Attack, needs to stay with the team to buff etc.)

One last edit: After she'd been cuddled into uselessness, we were told there would be new types of Nephilim in the future, so that Tots or Young will want her help to grow into these. This is apparently supposed to fix her, but I don't see how. She will still remain a rather inferior fighter with huge price tag (stats are good, she's just not getting anywhere near a competent opponent).

Edited February 13, 2012 by Q'iq'el

[Sybaris]

I agree. Imho a part of the problem is that she was designed in a direction that doesn't fit the story.

She got abilities that you would probably want for a "Mother of Monsters" (aka Lilith), while she is pretty much being described as a pure fighter.

So even if they add other Nephilim to get more uses of her +:masks , she will still lag behind a lot of other fighters that cost less, or especially those that can use soulstones.

And who can afford to babysit a 13ss model?

[Nephalumps]

Even if they add in new types of Tots and Young Nephalim in future releases, that doesn't really help Nekima - you don't add value to an expensive model by making it more expensive.

I totally understand why Nekima ended up getting her abilities dialed back; her interactions led to some ugly shenanigans. But it really feels like her original cost was weighted against the possibility of those shenanigans, because on her own she's not all that scary (the Mature is better in combat for cheaper,) and she's preposterously expensive for a support model.

She either needs a rules re-write, or a cost adjustment to bring her in line with her current capabilities. I'm fine with a big (oddly) sexy lady helping my little guys grow and fight, but that SS price tag is not cool at all.

[micahwc]

Her trigger which allows her to push enemy models is a lot of fun if you are playing on top of a lot of buildings. I never get tired of pushing enemy models off of 3 inch tall terrain.

[Sybaris]

That trigger is the only thing that can help her dmg output, but it is still very situational compared to flay (you need terrain for them to be thrown into or off). The 2 dmg gets reduced by armor separately (which is worse than flay unless you start fighting armor 4+).

It also means that the other 3 sword triggers (she got 4) compete against that one, since she can only fire one off per hit.

...and lastly it also brings the whole "who controls the model during a push" issue.

[pgbsamurai]

For me it depends on the number of stones you are playing and what models you are bringing. 35 to 40+ she is almost an auto include for me. Of course I also tend to play with a lot of tots in my crew. The cuddles she received a few months ago really weren't that bad when you look at the interactions it actually affected. It hurt her interaction with Lilitu's lure trigger, Lelu's flurry, and the Malifaux Cherub's ability to cast transposition. And I fully admit the Lilitu infinite trigger was broken and need to change.

[Sybaris]

I also agree that the rules, as they were, needed the errata. The problem is the resulting value of the model is, according to most who do post here, not worth the SS cost.

[Q'iq'el]

I disagreed with the errata back then and I don't like it now. Double-Take+Nekima combo was really nasty if you brought two Lilitus and Pandora. In any other list, with single Lilitu, it was very powerful, but it could be dealt with. It seemed especially balanced in Lilith Nephilim lists, as it was almost the only attack targeting the Wp the list had access too.

Rather than addressing the problem of the Twins working with Pandora (remove Woe, duh) and Lilitu being Rare 2, they cuddled Nekima.

And what is particularly frustrating about this is that Nekima had already been very underwhelming before the cuddle. Combo with Lilitu was the saving grace and the reason to take her.

Not only did the change killed that combo for the crews that weren't actually abusing it, but it also killed her only chance of redemption - combo with Tuco - before it even happened.

They should've rewrote her rules when they changed her. Make her more survivable or more mobile and perhaps change how her buffs work (so that she can activate late in the turn, not as early as possible). If there's one botched work among Wyrd rules, it certainly is Nekima.

[Sybaris]

Nice post Q'iq'el.

The reason they needed to errata seems to be (at least from what is found on this forum) that they intended Nekima to only boost Tots and Youngs in the first place, so they had to correct that. Why they did not want to adress the issue of Nekima being quite poor as a 13SS model, errata or not, is beyond me.

[Q'iq'el]

Obviously we are in the realm of double-guessing now, but after the Book 2 had appeared some devs or testers defended DT/NH combo. It was suggested the combo had been extensively tested too. In that light the statement it had been intended only for Tots and Young sounded like damage control to me.

But this may be the one subject I'm truly biased about. I feel the devs kneeled to pressure and in a way that wasn't warranted.

Either way, for that price, effort needed to put her together and the soul stone cost, we do deserve a complete review of the model. For now my advise to new players is not to sink their money in that one.

[ooshawn]

first off let me say, I really like nekima other than her one legged stance and 13ss cost. She is really good as is, though I'm going to say she needs to be taken down to 12 or 11ss cost. And she is so much better than lilith. if she were only a henchmen.

[Oshova]

If she was a Henchman, then she would be worthwhile for something. But it would be a bit too similar to a Lilith crew, and the last thing we want is for repetition to creep into Malifaux. (see Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels etc)

She isn't that bad when it comes down to it, but 13ss is a lot to spend on one model (seeing as the majority of games seem to be 35ss), even the people talking about the Filth List knew that it only began to be effective at 35ss, and only started to be optimal at 40ss+.

Is she a cool model? Yes

Does she have cool rules? Yes and No

Is she over-priced (£$)? No

Is she over-priced (ss)? Probably

[Gollum528]

I know that this is probably an unpopular opinion but I actually like her quite a bit in smaller point games. I know it eats up a lot of your crew but your opponent won't have a lot of big stuff to take her down easily. Between her and Lilith you can take out most 25ss crews (other than guild) and leave some tots for objective grabbing and natural growth throughout the game.

[ooshawn]

Honestly, I almost see my grow list working better with zoraida then lilith. She has not alot of synergy other than spending 2 soulstones for 1 blood counter. Personally to me, i would rather take a desparate mercenary and get 3 blood counters effectively. Lilith almost seems closer to being less of a master and more of a henchmen than nekima, as far as the complexity of her rules go.

[Q'iq'el]

Honestly, I almost see my grow list working better with zoraida then lilith. She has not alot of synergy other than spending 2 soulstones for 1 blood counter. Personally to me, i would rather take a desparate mercenary and get 3 blood counters effectively. Lilith almost seems closer to being less of a master and more of a henchmen than nekima, as far as the complexity of her rules go.

It's going to sound harsh, but you probably need to invest a lot more time into learning how to play Lilith. She's considered one of the best masters in game for a reason, and those who don't like Neverborn will thell you she is not popular only because other NB masters are even more broken.

Personally I think she is easy to play, but rather hard to master. Her synergy is chiefly positional - she sets up Nephilim for combined multi-vector attacks and for that you need to know the game a lot and play with proper terrain (otherwise the terrain related advantages of her crew get no occasion to shine).

Her most synergetic abilities, as far as direct synergies go, are Brood Mother and Transposition. If you use these two abilities in connection with Lelu & Lilitu, for example... or Nekima, Terror Tot and a Lelu or Mature... there are very nasty tricks to pull off. A good usage of a totem can make these synergies even more effective.

In comparison Nekima is just a bigger Mature Nephilim that really pulls some of her weight in SS in a pure Terror Tot list (because of the speed buffs she gives the little guys) and perhaps with Black Blood Shaman to actually make them damage stuff too. But those still are play-for-fun lists and not something you'd recommend as powerful. Her biggest weakness is inability to get into combat on her own - anyone with half a brain will either kill her immediately or bog her don with some throw-away minions. She needs Lilith even to enter combat (via Transposition), against competent opponents.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Only in bigger games, like bawls

[Guardian]

Personally to me, i would rather take a desparate mercenary and get 3 blood counters effectively.

Not sure if I understand, can you please, elaborate?

[Finnegan]

+1 to Guardian. Both the Black Blood Shaman and Nekima may have Blood sense, but only the closest of the two gets the Blood counter from it, so at most I can see a Desperate Merc netting you two Blood Counters - which is stil a pretty nifty amount.

[ooshawn]

Well the third one cones when you inject blood on the BBS using a corpse counter

[Finnegan]

Ah, right, the nifty trigger I always forget about XD