First use of Avatars of Indulgence

[Spiku]

Edit:Please do comment with your findings and tricks =D I will be adding anything I've not noticed, or anything I find in future, into this for others

Had a rather interesting game with Som'er and Peaches vs Seamus/Dread. This was largely a game to experiment with the avatars themselves, and was played with an illegal crew it seems~

1)You can turn 2 manifest by having 3 gremlins get hurt on turn 1, and using Som'er to healing flip all 3 of them with reckless. For my game, using the hog whisperer to give him reactivate now that he was a pig, as well as sooey from the mosquito (I discarded the cards to keep mine, you WILL do the same because of exactly this) meant he was already in combat on the same turn as manifesting, and then sooey'd back down the board later on. Yay for ignoring disengaging strikes. You will have to decide for yourself if you want to get two gore strikes for higher damage, or two drumstickin for card destroying. On a charge, with reckless, you can get off 4 attacks by burning two of your own cards.

2) Don't let your opponent use The Hanged, you'll chew through soul stones keeping them from preventing healing flips! Som'er is still easily pushed around himself. You never had him in combat before, but now you might, and you will love hard to wound and armor 1, but he still gets beat on; you will be using his healing flips; and you don't like being denied them.

3) Remember how Gremlin's luck would eat up entire hands of the opponent? You'll find that you do the same thing to yourself now instead~ You have completely lost the ability to control the enemy hand outside of preventing paralyse, and you will discard your crappy cards to strike again in combat because why not? I find I cheat cards in combat less knowing that I will get another attack anyway. This is one reason I like to manifest early, as it means that I don't have to feel so hurt by throwing away 2 cards for my mosquito. Oh! You get to know what it's like having 6 cards in your hand now! (I can't tell you how happy I was about this when my 6th card was the red joker, instead of having it wasted on initiative!)

4) +1 wp! +1 wp flips! +1 wp flips to your crew! Dear lord! You don't have to hide behind the pigapult vs Pandora anymore! You don't have to instantly have Rami or Ophelia paralysed vs The Dreamer! This area is so amazing; I got attacked at one point, triggered summoning a Bayou Gremlin 6 inches away near the Avatar of Dread, who was able to pass his terrify just because of all those cards flipped. Slow summon, fine, reckless for 2 actions to deliver a message. Good game~

5) Mosquitos. If you pigboomeranged not too much changes here, except now you have peaches to pull about for LoS denial and for stopping the stampede when you need to make the piglets significant. You really, really wont be farting as much, and you no longer can card deny. Even if you played Ophelia lists, and only took Som'er because you had to at higher points/brawls, and just used them to deny cards/fart bomb, don't despair. You will only be casting the new pull my finger with a 13, with mosquitos, but;

A) It saves Som'er having to do it, and lets som'er do more attacks

Sadly, it tarets df now, but it does Wds out to 6" (pushing 3" directly away too). This lets you ignore damage prevention, and ignores Hard to Kill.

C) You can still companion mozzies to Som'er. You could companion chain sooey Som'er into the enemy to charge for 3 attacks, reckless for a fart, or do 3 farts possibly producing piglets whilst doing so, and then sooey him back with the mozzies.

D) Learn the Pig Boomerang for the love of god.

E) The push means that the classic trick of Ooh it's a girl! or pigapult to allow a Slop Hauler to push people off an objective or what have you can be acomplished FAR easier. Never worry about the wagon again. Or just Sooey Som'er up to it, have his first action be to gas everyone 3" away from the wagon, then charge it himself. Gore moderate on the charge is 6.

6)Hog Whisperer. I will forever be fielding Som'er's new wife, the Gremlinette, even if I am not using piglets. This is no Nurse. 5ss gives me healing flips, free movement on Som'er and reactivate. Reactivate means I can use the trigger for extra attacks on som'er twice more, or shine pig twice in one turn, my gremlins only paying the cost of having slow once. Oh, and you're also flying. Enjoy that terrain.

7) Support! Any turn that I am not planning to rush him in, or haven't got the mozzie chain up yet, there's no reason not to be supporting. Removing the 1 damage from reckless means your entire crew is fast; combined with the ability to (1) 10" radius pull gremlins 3" toward you... The combinations of options available with Hog Whisperer/Mosquito sooey, Ophelia Ooh it's a girl! and protect the hooch means that, for example, Raphael could have 46" of total movement. My slop hauler is now not -quite- so mandatory, but given he comes with Sooey, he now has SOME value on turns he is not able to heal someone. You might also consider this: If Pere Ravage has been given hard to kill and the Reckless buff, and you successfully pigapult him at the enemy; he can cast Oopsie twice and still survive with 1 hp. He'll be slow so you can't do anything after that, but I'm sure you've companioned in Rami somewhere there to shoot him. 10 defendable damage and 4 undefendable damage? Yes please.

8) McTavish. Cannot Wrangle Critter on Peaches, so there.

9) B.Y.O.G. has some noteable uses. For one, if someone shoots you at reasonably close range you could summon the Bayou in their melee range to stop them being able to shoot again. Bigkid points out that Bayou Gremlin's have an ability called: "The Other White Meat". When they fail a Morale Duel, push the nearest Pig within 4" into base contact, sacrifice the Bayou Gremlin, and heal all wounds suffered by the pig. The synergy with Avatar Som'er's defensive trigger B.Y.O.G. and an enemy terrifying model is potent, as you can summon a Bayou Gremlin when taking damage if you have a crow on your defence (If only it were a mask requirement!)

Note: Ratty has referred the timing on when to take a Morale Duel when a model is summoned inside a Terrifying Effect to be clarified in the upcoming FAQ.

What you have here is choice. A lot of it.

A) You could have Som'er as your precision nuke.

As a cluster boomerang upgrade.

C) Full support turn your crew from a fast self mutilation crew, to a normal speed better statted crew (hard to kill and +wp every turn, with slow, but 0Wd from reckless) with more movement etc

D) Just manifest a lot later in the day and be a factory as usual~ whatever.

E) A way to companion in your -entire crew- with Ophelia, because she can companion the LaCroix, Family in Som'er, who can companion the mozzies and bayou gremlins. Consider that with Ooh it's a girl! Som'er could pull your crew say, 6" forward, grant them no damage on reckless; and have you unloading all your bayou gremlins uninterrupted, with Ophelia's no miss aura.

I can see little reason for not taking Avatar Som'er; he brings so very much and frankly, I play against neverborn too much, and my faithful manservant often plays Seamus. Do you know how annoying it is when you're playing low soulstone games, playing as Ophelia, and she takes Steal the Relic without any fear of not being able to. I always felt that Gremlin's Luck was a bit anti-fun. I can't think of a single game where I have nuked someone's hand, that they haven't been quite frustrated by it. Oh well. He really does, however, cover a lot of the gaps, and whilst he is no longer a super fast factory of infinite production, he will still grant you more critters as he goes~

Thanks for the thanks Attila

Edited February 20, 2012 by Spiku

[Bigkid]

Stuffed Piglets without a Taxidermist??

[JayBarlekamp]

I believe BigKid meant you can't take stuffed piglets without a taxidermist. I'm pretty sure it says so on the stuffed piglet card

[Chucklemonkey]

Nowhere on my stuffed piglet card does it say this is the case. It only mentions that it has Companion (Gremlin Taxidermist), which does not omit purchase.

It should do. The 'Living Taxidermy' rule no? It is definitely stated in the book.

[Dumb Luck]

The time you wouldn't take the Avatar is during missions when you need Somer's summoning ability to win a war of numbers.

I could see a lot of value in the gunline crews by just repeating Reckless Frenzy, Walk then Protect the Hooch.

Best way to heal him is through Soeeeey Nothin', as it doesn't slow down the rest of the crew like Shine Pig. Avatar Somer has it, as does the Whisperer.

[Omenbringer]

It should do. The 'Living Taxidermy' rule no? It is definitely stated in the book.

Living Taxidermy is exactly the rule on the Stuffed Piglets that precludes them from being hired in a crew that doesn't contain a Gremlin Taxidermist.

[Spiku]

It's certainly in the book, though not on the card I use, how bizarre. Good thing that's the only time I've not had a Taxidermist with the explodey piggies.

Dumb Luck: I wholeheartedly agree on the healing flip side; it's the only way that the Hog Whisperer is healing him in the first place, and is the 0 action used almost exclusively when you are using him as your striker, rather than a supportist~ I think I have used Shine Pig! a total of 4 times across the two games I've played, 25% of my 0 actions.

However, I disagree with war of numbers not meriting Peaches; 2ss would buy me one more bayou which I don't think gives me as much. Choosing when you drop the Avatar gives you access to Hard to Kill on your swarm of summoned gremlins, as well as the option of reckless for no wounds. That 1 wound Gremlin having 15" of reposition as opposed to 10" can make the difference of being inside an opponent's deployment zone, or on another quarter, or threatening a different location. Another healing flip option too. You still get to summon on 10+ tomes or if your opponent is mad enough to shoot at him knowing that he can drop out more piggies. Clearly if you wanted to use soul stoned mozzies to summon more (or had 13's) you'd do that before going avatar =X

Important to remember not to discard that 5 of masks to strike again as Som'er too, because reactivate.

What I do currently have to do is work out a way of getting more out of the Hog Whisperer on the first turn other than advancing her into a position 8 inches ahead of Som'er to be able to sooey/stik'm/never happen on turn 2. I find it hard to bring myself to do something like Baconnnn! a piglet summoned by som'er, because even though that is effectively netting me 2 cards for no cost, I feel like I am losing the +1 ss of model from the piggie. Perhaps if I lava that new gremlin specifically I'll feel happier about it, but even then it is suit dependant.

Any further input, or tactica up on Som'er & Peaches? In my second game he almost stole the show with just one mozzie and his waifu up; flying over sonnia's walls, smashing into his chaps, summoning piglets onto Lucius (oh no, failed terrify!) and cheating crows in no matter of the success on every Df duel for more gremlins. But he couldn't steal the show, because my opponent hadn't paid enough attention to Ophelia whilst Peaches was zooming over buildings chasing Mosquitos and his waifu, or Som'er lunging after Ophelia. She started unloading 6 and 8 damage hits at a crucial moment, as well as getting the Hog Whisperer into range of stik'em (even more disturbing). I really wish I could work out a way to draw the Never happen thinger.

But we all already knew Ophelia is the best gremlin.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Spiku

[Dumb Luck]

The point I was making about numbers is that with Git Yer Bro, you can hide behind a line of Gremlins and summon to your hearts content. Most gangs will find it very hard to appraoch your castle of gunfire. Last turn you make a mad rush for objectives.

Normal Somer may be worth it you're taking the Pigapult method of grabbing evidence in Destroy the Evidence.

[Spiku]

The point I was making was that for the cost of 1 gremlin, you gain the ability to manifest on the last turn to make the mad dash; you will certainly have -some- of them being threatened during the game anyway, and protecting them; if that wasn't the case, you have the ability to pull them further and if you happen to have a hog whisperer anyway, you've just got the ractivate pull for further movement of the gremlins.

I hadn't overlooked it, I'm pretty sure I mentioned summon factory then manifest later on in my previous response, at least I hope I remembered/didn't delete it

Destroy Evidence is a fair point; I think that at present I'd still take Avatars just for the fact that I can summon factory for the first 2-3 turns, whilst mosquitoes get to as save as posistions they can be in to pull up a reactivatable som'er who could interact with things at the same time as flinging gremlins (or Ophelia, because I never get enough of flipping a 1 then soulstoning a 2 or black joker)

[Bigkid]

Used Peaches the other night and I loved it (her/him??).

Another tactic when facing Terror crews is to keep a Bayou Gremlin near by (or summon one when taking damage. Love that trigger!) then, when it takes a Terror test, cheat it to a fail (if you initially succeed what with all the plus flips...) Bingo! Fully healed Peaches! (see: 'The Other White Meat'). Happy days!

[Dumb Luck]

You'd also get to draw two cards from Survival of the Fittest.

[Bigkid]

And potentially move out of an unwanted melee.

Or indeed, into melee range....

[Spiku]

Bigkid: Thank you very much for highlighting that; I can count the times I have used The Other White Meat on my thumbs, so it had entirely slipped my mind. Had I recalled the rule I would have saved Som'er having to use a soulstone prevention one fight as he'd have been fully healed exactly from using B.Y.O.G. trigger next to a hanged, as well as getting him away from something without having had to use a Sooey =D

That's exactly why I made the post anywho, so good show!

Edit: Peaches is a lady, of course.

[CrazyCarl]

Wow, TOWM is incredible, thanks for the tip! I've never used that ability before, and it sure would have come in handy in the game I just played against Lilith! I've gotten two games in with the Avatar so far and not so great results. Here's hoping my next games go better!

[Spiku]

Haha, glad you checked the thread ;D Bigkid really needs an award for his Captian Obvious impression making us look daft. In fact I'm going to thank that post now we have the mechanic on the forum!

Interestingly there is a bit of dispute over the specific timing for Terrifying duels for a summoned model inside a terrifying effect. I'll make sure to update when the FAQ/Clarification thread is resolved!

[Charmant]

I just got my hands on the avatars of indulgence the other day, and I am planning on trying it out in a couple of games tomorrow. I think it looks mighty interesting and quite different from how regular Som'er runs, for example I might take a handful of soulstones even if I don't include Ophelia. Even if he has a lot of ways of getting healed back up it never hurts to be safe, being at the recieving end of "Gamble your life" or some other bananas ability.

The other great difference I'm gonna have to take into concideration is the fact that his summoning powers change quite a lot, but I'm guessing I'm gonna run quite a pig heavy list as I want the whisperer anyway for reactivate, slop hauler(s) for sooey etc. Might as well get a bunch of piglets for even more utilization of the sooeys that are gonna be cast anyway. What I'm thinking of is whether it might be worth it to take a warpig along with the avatar, I usually agree with folks saying it's too big an investment, but with Peaches and her spouse the warpig and a bunch of piglets on the field I think it may very well be able to cause a lot of havoc.

[baneful]

Great rundown Spiku, I havnt got around to trying peaches yet but you have given me a bit to think about, thanks.

[Spiku]

I personally don't like the warpig if I have Som'er, as you don't always have the diamonds you need for reactivate anyway, and Som'er is likely to do the LoS blocking for you XD but give us your results when you try it. I'll say that I've fully switched to pig lists when taking Som'er as my Master because it lets me field my Gremlinette and she is wonderful with Som'er and Peaches.

So far I've consistently won with the pig lists, but the games I have played so far have been a bit non-fun; one where fully out activating, card denial, pigs attacking and fully returning to base, with strategies that promoted me sitting in my deployment and them coming to me, really just seemed a wasted game as neither of us really enjoyed my win.

[Omenbringer]

I just got my hands on the avatars of indulgence the other day, and I am planning on trying it out in a couple of games tomorrow. I think it looks mighty interesting and quite different from how regular Som'er runs, for example I might take a handful of soulstones even if I don't include Ophelia. Even if he has a lot of ways of getting healed back up it never hurts to be safe, being at the recieving end of "Gamble your life" or some other bananas ability.

This was the main intent of the Avatars, they are supposed to be different (and not just better versions of themselves)

What I'm thinking of is whether it might be worth it to take a warpig along with the avatar, I usually agree with folks saying it's too big an investment, but with Peaches and her spouse the warpig and a bunch of piglets on the field I think it may very well be able to cause a lot of havoc.

It is the only other model in the Gremlin line up (aside from the rather immobile Pigapult) that can block LOS to him from other models (except of course Nekima that can see over them). In that regard it is valuable, though I think Some'r favors a balanced list more than a pig centric list (since a lot of his abilities are Gremlin centric).

[CrazyCarl]

So I've gotten three games in with the avatar so far. In the first two I tried to get in some summoning then manifest on turn 3. This worked out poorly. 3rd game I went for the straight up manifest on turn 2 and he was much more effective I found. The video for that game will be up later today, but I felt that aSomer was much more effective on turn 2 than three. That extra turn really made the difference.

[Spiku]

Looking forward to seeing it! You do play Som'er very differently than I, even when I am using him with Ophelia. It'll be very interesting to see how it goes now after the rocky start with you learning the hard way how 4df changes Som'er.

In my first game with him I just played him straight up bruiser.. NEVER AGAIN. I realised the folly of my ways when a Punk Zombie got to get a word in; VERY close shave. Good thing Som'er's wife ran in, called him back, and gave him a healing flip! I certainly won't ever be letting him get hit any more. Gremlinette demands he comes back in time for dinner and a healing flip whenever he goes out to play with the lads from now on.

[Attila]

THX for this great thread. I'm going to run Som'er and Peaches tomorrow for a few games.

Another nice trick, I don't know if it has been mentioned before:

For example Convict Gunslinger shoots on Som'er, probably with Hair Trigger and Rapid Fire. Cheat a Crow for the first defense flip, take damage and summon a Bayou Gremlin into melee with the Gunslinger. This way he can't continue shooting on Som'er.

[Bigkid]

THX for this great thread. I'm going to run Som'er and Peaches tomorrow for a few games.

Another nice trick, I don't know if it has been mentioned before:

For example Convict Gunslinger shoots on Som'er, probably with Hair Trigger and Rapid Fire. Cheat a Crow for the first defense flip, take damage and summon a Bayou Gremlin into melee with the Gunslinger. This way he can't continue shooting on Som'er.

Another good one.

Funny it seems so obvious when you see it...

Anyway, I'm starting to get a bit worried about old AS'omer.

Played AS'omer last night v's a Viks/Von Schill crew and got **censored**! (No word of a lie, I was on the wrong side of a 7 string Whirlwind! Just sat there with my hand of $$$$$$$$e thinking 'Well, this doesn't happen everyday...') and I'm struggling to see what it is he does. You know....actually does?? You manifest and you lose the hand manipulation spell. You lose the frankly awesome 'Pull my Finger' spell ('Swamp Gas' is a very poor subsitute. Df resists with a 13 needed to cast with a Mosquito does not make you friends down the Bayou...).

You gain a load of WP buffs but.....so what??

Anyone want to mentally slap me (like a hysterical lass on a sinking ship) and bring me back to my senses?? Please??

[Dumb Luck]

Another good one.

Funny it seems so obvious when you see it...

Anyway, I'm starting to get a bit worried about old AS'omer.

Played AS'omer last night v's a Viks/Von Schill crew and got **censored**! (No word of a lie, I was on the wrong side of a 7 string Whirlwind! Just sat there with my hand of $$$$$$$$e thinking 'Well, this doesn't happen everyday...') and I'm struggling to see what it is he does. You know....actually does?? You manifest and you lose the hand manipulation spell. You lose the frankly awesome 'Pull my Finger' spell ('Swamp Gas' is a very poor subsitute. Df resists with a 13 needed to cast with a Mosquito does not make you friends down the Bayou...).

You gain a load of WP buffs but.....so what??

Anyone want to mentally slap me (like a hysterical lass on a sinking ship) and bring me back to my senses?? Please??

*slap*

Take him with a horde of normal Gremlins, cast Reckless Frenzy, companion all of them with Peaches and THEN you can start the hysterics. I have seen literally no discussion on this ability. But its horrid. Start with Ophelia and all the LaCroix. Activate them. Family Tree in Somer. Activate LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE. Apart from any Haulers, Whisperers etc.

What Swamp Gas has over Pull my Finger is doing wounds, longer range and the push. I used it to great effect in a Claim Jump game by pushing ASeamus off the marker, reactivating and doing it again. Free pigs is pretty good too.

I would say you just had bad luck, Bigkid. The Wp buffs will literally do nothing against Viks and nothing could stand up to that Whirlwind crazy luck anyway.

I think as good as Avatr Somer is, at the moment he is exclusively for larger games or we just haven't figured out a list for him yet. Gremlin crews still need that core of Ophelia, Rami and Slop Hauler. I say this because you're not just buying the Avatar, but pretty much the Hog Whisperer too.

Like anything else in Malifaux, its simply a matter of working out what we need Peaches for.

[Spiku]

Dumb Luck: I mentioned reckless frenzy in support, and the companion Bayou ;3 I also pointed out the Ophelia + Som'er = activate almost your entire crew.

Vs the Viktorias, you are now a Df4 big target without Squeel. Now, if you are not using companioned mosquitoes to sooey hit and run vs them, or out activating then running away, or indeed filling them with load after load of gremlin lead, then why use A.Som'er vs them? Given they have 3 soulstone using models, just force as many shots on them as possible ;3

Dumb Luck: If I am running a pig list, I include Som'er at 30ss+ If I am running with Ophelia and Rami, then I'd only include him at high point lists.