Lucidicide Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you have the suites, AND the target fails to resist. Again, one of those abilities that look good on paper, but in practice is pretty sub-par. Not to get picky (OK, I guess I am getting picky), but I wouldn't call the ability sub-par. I would call it amazing, but highly situational/luck-based. Maybe that indicates sub-par, and I can understand that. It's nothing you can rely on, but I doubt it'll ever go off and someone will say "Meh, that was alright." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 That is exactly what sub-par means. A great ability is something you can put in your crew and have every expectation of it working. Rotten Belles for example are fantastic models for their cost because of that they bring to the table. They have a better than average amount of wounds for their cost, and they have a fantastic control ability that will work most of the time. I doubt anyone would be raving about belles if they didn't have the Seductive ability that gave them +4 and the mask to their casting for Lure. Same thing with the Necrotic Machine. It has low Wds and low Def, making it very easy to kill. It's ability that you want it for is more than likely the ability to use philosophy of uncertainty, which requires a high suite as well as most likely, an additional SS. You also need to be able to get it into a position near a model that is worthwhile to use it on, is susceptible to it, and then succeed on the cast, and the opponent needs to fail the resist. If anyone of those steps fails, you've pretty much wasted 2 SS worth of investment. Situationally AWESOME abilities are vastly inferior to solid, useful, all the time abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 That is exactly what sub-par means. A great ability is something you can put in your crew and have every expectation of it working. Rotten Belles for example are fantastic models for their cost because of that they bring to the table. They have a better than average amount of wounds for their cost, and they have a fantastic control ability that will work most of the time. I doubt anyone would be raving about belles if they didn't have the Seductive ability that gave them +4 and the mask to their casting for Lure. Same thing with the Necrotic Machine. It has low Wds and low Def, making it very easy to kill. It's ability that you want it for is more than likely the ability to use philosophy of uncertainty, which requires a high suite as well as most likely, an additional SS. You also need to be able to get it into a position near a model that is worthwhile to use it on, is susceptible to it, and then succeed on the cast, and the opponent needs to fail the resist. If anyone of those steps fails, you've pretty much wasted 2 SS worth of investment. Situationally AWESOME abilities are vastly inferior to solid, useful, all the time abilities. Certainly true, I'd rather have a useful all the time ability, but those abilities aren't all that common. High stats are solid and useful all the time. But even something like Sonnia's flame burst is only useful some of the time (enemy in Rg and not in melee) and only be dedicating a soulstone (for Confiscated Lore) and/or a high card... and even then it can be resisted. And yet, it's a good ability. I'm not saying that Philosophy of Uncertainty is awesome by any means. But I've wasted 2 soulstones on a single action by Sonnia before, flipped poorly on the SS, and been resisted. Do you need things to go your way? Yes. But that's sort of the game. Regardless, I'm not trying to argue that Necrotic Machine is awesome or that it's abilities are solid. Rather, I'm saying that I don't think it's sub-par just because it's because it needs a specific suit and probably a soulstone. A lot in this game goes that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 For 9ss I'd rather take broken Bette, or even unbroken Bette I agree however my favorite is still the dead rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree however my favorite is still the dead rider. I'll be trying him out tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 That Dead Rider got sliced by a Witchling Stalker tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Red joker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 How'd you guess? Almost made up for Leveticus killing Sonnia in one activation the next turn! Game (Shared A Line in the Sand) ended in a draw, which is maybe my best ever result against mp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 How'd you guess? Because with the majority of my past experiences with him he either goes down hard as a result of a Joker or he dosent go down at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Almost made up for Leviticus killing Sonnia in one activation the next turn! I assume this was done in melee? What was used to take her down? I can almost never get anything off against her as Leve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yes, mamaged to get onto an even flip and then cheat in a severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yes, mamaged to get onto an even flip and then cheat in a severe. Thanks! My own experience with Leve has shown her to be brutal -- advanced counterspell + a Leve tendency to have things like SPAs close together make her extra mean. She might be my least favorite match-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Was a very hard game last night against Clousseau. I really need to get sophisticated with Levi's wound mechanic, I keep making mistakes which stop him dying. Dave played a blinder though, totally outclassed me, red joker or no red joker - but I was this clunky with Hamelin once... For the diary, some nice things I got to try last night including the dead rider and waifs doing Levi's (0) spell. Re the Dead Rider did I play it right that I can activate him in one "state" to get (+1) Fast, use the Fast and then do his (0) to change phase and get (+1) Melee Expert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Your adjust purpose must be the first thing you do in their activation. Sorry Pockets, that would be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yes, but does his Purpose change if he takes wounds during his activation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 No. You check the purpose at the start of the turn after regeneration. Only other way to change it during the turn is the (0) spell. And that states if must be the first thing used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Just to check if I've been playing him correctly, you get the purpose at the start of the **activation** and it ends at the end of the turn. So from the start of the turn until the moment the rider activates, it has no "purpose" at all, and does not benefit from things like Terrifying, Hard to Kill, etc that he might have received the turn before. If I am not mistaken, the only rider that keeps his purpose from turn to turn is the Hooded Rider, as it defines the purpose at the beginning of the game and only changes it with the 0 spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Just to check if I've been playing him correctly, you get the purpose at the start of the **activation** and it ends at the end of the turn. So from the start of the turn until the moment the rider activates, it has no "purpose" at all, and does not benefit from things like Terrifying, Hard to Kill, etc that he might have received the turn before. If I am not mistaken, the only rider that keeps his purpose from turn to turn is the Hooded Rider, as it defines the purpose at the beginning of the game and only changes it with the 0 spell. The purpose does not end. You check for your purpose at the start of the turn and after regeneration. You gain the benefits of the purpose depending on wounds. No where does the purpose say it ends at end of turn. And because it is an ability printed on the card, you always have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Was a very hard game last night against Clousseau. I really need to get sophisticated with Levi's wound mechanic, I keep making mistakes which stop him dying. Dave played a blinder though, totally outclassed me, red joker or no red joker - but I was this clunky with Hamelin once... Sometimes a spell won't go off or whatever and you won't be able to do the Wds to yourself, or there won't be a target. Every now and again, I find myself hitting Leve with another model in order to make sure he's dead. It's just too terrible if he's not dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 No where does the purpose say it ends at end of turn. Exactly. When an effect does not list an end time, it ends at the end of the closing phase. At least that is how I always played these effects. I would love to be proved wrong, as I use the rider quite frequently. I guess I will post a question about it in the rules forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Exactly. When an effect does not list an end time, it ends at the end of the closing phase. At least that is how I always played these effects. I would love to be proved wrong, as I use the rider quite frequently. I guess I will post a question about it in the rules forum. Its not an effect. Its an ability. Just like his hard to wound. Only difference is it may change due to wounds/adjust purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I dunno man, I think you should quit. You lost to Som'er 0-7 in Slaughter vs Thwart and Gather Soulstones when he has a 0 cache. The internet says he is the worst master! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRC Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) If I am not mistaken, the only rider that keeps his purpose from turn to turn is the Hooded Rider, as it defines the purpose at the beginning of the game and only changes it with the 0 spell. Mechanical rider does the same thing. She gets her purpose at start of turn, based on turn number. The Dead Rider uses the phrase "while this model has # Wd remaining ...", could that qualify as "stating otherwise" for duration purposes? I can't see anything for the Pale Rider that would let it keep abilities past the end of turn. Edited February 20, 2012 by CRC addendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I dunno man, I think you should quit. You lost to Som'er 0-7 in Slaughter vs Thwart and Gather Soulstones when he has a 0 cache. The internet says he is the worst master! Yes, but let's not get carried away - I was playing to use my new models to see how they act and not for the win. I'd never normally take just two models and Levi in a 30ss scrap lol ---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ---------- Your adjust purpose must be the first thing you do in their activation. Sorry Pockets, that would be amazing. Yeah, saw that when I checked the card after posting. Hum ho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I like my version of the story, where we don't mention things like you getting a black joker on the Dead Rider hitting Rami with 1Wd left, and I got a red joker for damage followed by a severe, letting a 2ss Bayou Gremlin deal 12 damage to the rider in the subsequent activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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