Rathnard Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Regarding model count, I actually worked this out after Dickson (from the Gamer's Lounge Podcast) said that Levi had the most models available to him in the game. It's Zoraida who has by far the highest number of models available to her for hire. If you ignore the voodoo doll and count just the models that Zoraida herself could hire in a scrap (so no So'mer, no Marionette, no Ht1 models from minion-Hamelin's talent), that brings her total to 75 models. Second is Marcus, at 63 models, thanks to his ability to hire Beasts. Most of the other Masters sit at around 50-60 models, which roughly translates to their own faction plus mercs and maybe a few other randoms allowed by certain talents. By the same criteria as above (so no hollow waifs, Ashen core etc), I *think* Levi ends up coming to 48 models (Levi can't take totems, which Twisted Metal included in his list and I'm as above I'm excluding some of the non-hirables) The bottom of the Master pile are Dreamer, So'mer and the Viks (I don't have exact numbers though). Henchmen have the lowest number of available minions, but that surprises nobody. I definitely have to agree that the quality of models available to Levi is overall better though. Similar to Zoraida, he can actually take quite a wide variety of crews and still make a good crew out of them. I think the best synergy, however, comes from those models that can really take advantage of an extra :crows for in their Cb, and anything with a good SS cost to scrap counter ratio (eg. Large SPA). Also anything that improves the crew's mobility and reach, which is why Rotten Belles should be such a great choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Metal Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Why would you eliminate the totems? When Levi takes a henchman he can hire them. The grave spirit is one of his greatest assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks to Maelstrom my latest additions have arrived this morning and will get a game with them tonight against Mike's Guild (probably Hoffbot AGAIN). Not really seen anything amazing here yet (although I've noticed I need lot and lots of crows) but will play them out and see how it goes. Here's the latest conscriptions (bottom row are duplicate models to what I've already got) - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malandres Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Looks like a nice bunch of toys for a painting project. Look forward to playing against your Levi crew at some point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Why would you eliminate the totems? When Levi takes a henchman he can hire them. The grave spirit is one of his greatest assets. Contrary to popular belief, Leveticus can in theory connect to a totem. The only reason you never see him with one is due to his Talent - Pariah. Part of Pariah states: "This model cannot hire totems". So as long as it's a crew led by Levi, you lose access to totems, undead or not. Hiring a henchman for Levi won't change that, since it's still not the Henchman who's doing the hiring. I gotta say, until now I'd never picked up on the fact that effects on Bete Noir will continue after she's buried. It's pretty brutal and outside of a Levi crew I can imagine this trick doing horrible, horrible things in combination with a Massive Dose from Nurse (for Reactivate and the massive melee boost). The only problem for Levi is finding a living model to kill to give it fast, since almost nothing in his crew will have that (EDIT: Never mind, just noticed the Stolen/Rat trick. ) In any case, given the strength of the above combo (and others that have been discussed ad infinitum), I'd be very surprised if Wyrd didn't revise the bury mechanic some time soon, so it might be best not to rely on it for your Levi crew. Edited February 15, 2012 by Rathnard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Contrary to popular belief, Leveticus can in theory connect to a totem. The only reason you never see him with one is due to his Talent - Pariah. Part of Pariah states: "This model cannot hire totems". So as long as it's a crew led by Levi, you lose access to totems, undead or not. Hiring a henchman for Levi won't change that, since it's still not the Henchman who's doing the hiring. This has been ruled that if there is another henchman or master on the table he can hire totems for them. Just not for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrAYFoX Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Hiring a henchman for Levi won't change that, since it's still not the Henchman who's doing the hiring. You probably missed this thread: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?26575-Who-hires-the-totem Edit: That will teach me to refresh before posting Edited February 15, 2012 by GrAYFoX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) That...is completely at odds with my reading of Levi's rules. Since when could models hired by a master hire models of their own? *10 minutes later* It took me a while, but I found the ruling; http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?26575-Who-hires-the-totem&highlight=Leveticus+Totem Pariah definitely needs to be revised to "Levi can't connect to totems". Right now the "can't hire" rule is easily misunderstood. EDIT: You're not the only one who should be refreshing threads. Edited February 15, 2012 by Rathnard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'd be very surprised if Wyrd didn't revise the bury mechanic some time soon, so it might be best not to rely on it for your Levi crew. I'm not relying on it, just having fun breaking it. And already noticed the +3wk from Molly to give to Bette and the SS Miner too. And tonight I'll be giving them armour from the Guardian too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Heinous. Can we get that ruling before Adepticon Masters please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adanedhel Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm disagreeing Rathnard, I've seen it ruled differently on these fora. And the only reason why Levi has that restriction is fairly simple: considering Levi tries to die every turn, chances are your totem doesn't survive turn one, considering it is sacced when connected master dies EDIT: I managed to miss the last page ;$ ah well, at least the reason why should be clear now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 So what you're telling me is Levi needs a v5 card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adanedhel Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well, there is a reason why with the last playtest the comment sended with the playtestrules was: 'Does he break the game again?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthefly Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) What thinks you of the Dead Rider with Levi? Also, if you are (if I am) planning on turning SPAs into a DE, how many SPAs is the right numner to start with? I usually start with 4, but can't seem to keep all 4 alive long enough to get the DE out in a sensible place. I'm considering starting with 5. Where am I going wrong? I've only had 3 games using Leveticus and havn't tried any tactics that include killing my own models short of getting a Waif out of a Canine Ramains and that is usually so far back that its not worth bringing Bette out. Bette is my favourite model (for her rules, I started with Nicodem) and I've never even tried the buff-bury trick. Crazy dead lady with carving knives! - looks better now I've repositioned her arms so that she is hiding the knives behind her back. I don't wan't to get used to using her with the buff-bury trick for her to then lose her lustre if that rule gets changed, and she doesn't need it anyway imo. Edited February 15, 2012 by iamthefly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 To say the Dead Rider is ridiculous with Levi would be an understatement. His spells already have a reasonable range, and combining the Dead Rider with his free walk, Levi can threaten pretty much anywhere on the board from the get-go. As an added bonus, you can drag Levi to a Ht2+ piece of terrain, and between it and the Rider you can shield Levi from pretty much anything until his activation rolls around. Pretty good Also, no need to take crap like Necropunks or whatever for objective grabbers because the Dead Rider can do that just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 So, played a 30ss game last night and took Levi, 6x Canine Remains (1x for waif and 2x for Sybelle), Molly, Necrotic Machine, 2x Belles. Strat was shared claim jump. Hard to comment on the game as we were both trying new models and a LOT of mistakes were made, but I've now got some first thoughts on Molly - she's cr*p. Sure the +3wk on Levi is nice, but not 9ss "nice", and being able to summon a Belle with corpse counters in cool but hard to get off as it's suit dependant. Did notice her sacrifice spell works quite well as a slow to die action (that could be fun in slaughter), but aside from that was very unimpressed. For 9ss I'd rather take broken Bette, or even unbroken Bette A question did come up though - why has the Necrotic machine got an ability which makes a living model undead? I can't see where that's useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurry Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 make a friendly model ignore terryfiying and nicos buff r the only things i can think of, prob more tho neither r useful for levi however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 make a friendly model ignore terryfiying and nicos buff r the only things i can think of, prob more tho neither r useful for levi however Yeah, but how many living models are there in a Molly crew? Or even a Resser crew for that matter - a nurse and... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm actually finding it hard to get all the undead I need in a Seamus crew, Convict Gunslinger, Desperate Mercs, Night Terrors, the occasional Onryo, non of those are undead, which makes Seamus' undead psychosis less effective than it already was. Granted I don't think the Necrotic Machine is the answer as it's 2 SS and requires an action to use, isn't permanent, and has a 2" range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Not helpful for Levi in a scrap but if you make a model undead then the grave spirit can link to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Grave spirit only provides armor to an undead model, once the next turn rolls around the target loses undead, and thus, his armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've been once in the target end of some shots fired by an undead Convict Gunslinger affected by Bolster Undead and I can tell you, it is mean... but not sure if it is worth the 2ss+totem slot and it was Nicodem on the other side, not Levi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Fattness Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 You can use Molly to copy any of Levi's spells. Having 2 models dropping unnatural waisting is a scary thing. I also like to run her when I run the dead rider. With her you can take the grave spirit and latch it on to the dead rider or a desolation engine, if you can get one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parzival Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 @Twisted Metal As I have stated in my post I had just counted MINIONS. With those two henchmen and 5 possible Totems that's more... On the other hand I admit I haven't counted the Waifs cause I don't hire them and I have counted the spiders as one option. But I will not comment on this topic any further. @Molly Molly can't copy Entropic Transformation and Necrotic Unmaking since they reffer to a model by name. Still, she has the best debuff spell in the game. Pretty powerful the double negative flip if you ask me... Also a self sacrificing Totem that can kill any minion instantly in return is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you have the suites, AND the target fails to resist. Again, one of those abilities that look good on paper, but in practice is pretty sub-par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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