Wolfgar Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) He did shoot a guy to get through a checkpoint rather than just go around. That's a lot of casual murder just because he might be inconvenienced otherwise. The fact that he had a reason doesn't make it okay. Also, he's killed more people in fluff than Sebastien. Of course don't get me wrong, McMourning is probably my favorite Ressurectionist. Edited January 20, 2012 by Wolfgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I did say one of. Hoffman you can't really say anything about as he really hasn't had to prove himself one way or another. He seems like a nice enough guy though. Lady Justice is firmly a good guy, although she doesn't work for good people. Lilith I'm not so sure. She seems to have reasonably pure motivations (saving Malifaux and stopping the Tyrant Entities), but her plans seem to involve too much manipulation and murder to really put her solidly with the good guys. Lilith does what she does for the good of her people, like many in Malifaux her motivations are good, application, arguable, very similar to Zoriadia, pandora is further down the scale, not as bad as Candy or Nekima, but not 'good' like Lilith or Zoriadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Lilith does what she does for the good of her people, like many in Malifaux her motivations are good, application, arguable, very similar to Zoriadia, Pandora is further down the scale, not as bad as Candy or Nekima, but not 'good' like Lilith or Zoriadia Certainly as the leader of a people who are being invaded by a hostile force her actions are much more acceptable; I'm just not sure she's really given true diplomacy any kind of shot. Pandora is so rooted in hatred it makes me wonder what the humans did to her. Zoraida has obviously done some bad things, but I think that may have something to do with her relationship with Fate. I'm not sure she and free will are always in the same room together. It's harder to really hold the Neverborn or the gremlins to human standards of morality though since they are so alien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 .. and the people who are still alive. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I view Lilith as the leader of a resistance group trying to remove the occupying army of another people from her native home land. She is one of the only true "good" master's in the game. Or so I tell myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Certainly as the leader of a people who are being invaded by a hostile force her actions are much more acceptable; I'm just not sure she's really given true diplomacy any kind of shot. Pandora is so rooted in hatred it makes me wonder what the humans did to her. Zoraida has obviously done some bad things, but I think that may have something to do with her relationship with Fate. I'm not sure she and free will are always in the same room together. It's harder to really hold the Neverborn or the gremlins to human standards of morality though since they are so alien. In the words of Perdita we are all monsters, the Nephilim are not so different from humans. Peace was never an option, the guild wanted power, they took it, the Neverborn need to manipulate the humans to get rid of the tyrants, but not risk the rise of more tyrants. Here's a question if the Nephilim are natural creatures of Malifaux, Nightmares creature of nightmares given form, Zoriadia is human, the woes are from the box after pandora opened it. Where does pandora come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustcrusher Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) One of the things I love about Malifaux is that almost everyone is shades of grey. I'd put them like this: - Good: Lady J, Hoffman - Mostly Good: Molly, Colette, Perdita - Mostly Evil: Nicodem, McMourning, Collodi, Som'er, Dreamer (don't give me that "he's just a kid" crap- he's a spoiled brat that kills people when he can't have his way, which is constantly). - Pure Evil: Seamus, Hamelin the Plagued - Somewhere in Between: everyone else EDIT: To be somewhat on-topic, here are my predictions for minions elevated to henchmen. It will probably be nothing like this when the book comes out: Guild: Samael Hopkins Resurrectionist: Sebastian Arcanist: not so sure here- Snow, Myranda, or that new steamfitter character in Book 3 fluff Neverborn: Nekima Outcasts: Misaki Edited January 20, 2012 by Dustcrusher to get back on topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I would add LCB to the "Pure Evil" club. Yeah, there's a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I would add LCB to the "Pure Evil" club. Yeah, there's a club. He's with December, Churfue and the Plagued Odd how they are all tyrants, how about a good one, or less evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaeVictus Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Can you please clarify for me - the Neverborn (or at least some of them) are the previous denizens of the land who got twisted and transformed by the opening of the gate to death, correct? But even back then it's not clear if they were actually "human". Probably they never were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Can you please clarify for me - the Neverborn (or at least some of them) are the previous denizens of the land who got twisted and transformed by the opening of the gate to death, correct? But even back then it's not clear if they were actually "human". Probably they never were. Zoriadia was human, pandora is possiblly human, the rest who knows, they might have evolved from us. Which is a very likely possibility, since there are human Nephilim hybrids, or dead ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Neverborn, henchman bump will be our inferno child of rage... IGGY!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Which is a very likely possibility, since there are human Nephilim hybrids, or dead onesAnd Tuco. Caught somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 And Tuco. Caught somewhere in the middle. Let's not, also Nekima knows how to turn humans into Nephilim, I wonder who that going to turn out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaeVictus Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Here's a question if the Nephilim are natural creatures of Malifaux, Nightmares creature of nightmares given form, Zoriadia is human, the woes are from the box after pandora opened it. - I guess many of the recent demons were born to reflect the fears of the humans who came from our world. In a sense, our own fears manifested by the magic of this world (the soulstone energy that is "everywhere"). I think those demons resembling the stuff of our campfire stories and folk tales (mostly Grimm's) is no accident. Maybe the world of Malifaux brings to the surface humanity's darkest side - our own nightmares, fears and insecurities are made real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 - I guess many of the recent demons were born to reflect the fears of the humans who came from our world. In a sense, our own fears manifested by the magic of this world (the soulstone energy that is "everywhere"). I think those demons resembling the stuff of our campfire stories and folk tales (mostly Grimm's) is no accident. Maybe the world of Malifaux brings to the surface humanity's darkest side - our own nightmares, fears and insecurities are made real. Or it's the real truth behind the legends and dream of them Beacuse of the soulstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaeVictus Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Or it's the real truth behind the legends and dream of them Beacuse of the soulstone - but humans had those legends on Earth already... or at least many of them, surely some must have gotten the other way around from Malifaux to Earth. But still, did you mean that our legends prior to Breach have been influenced by Malifaux's world? Like, passing through the barrier between worlds and planting seeds into our imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's entirely possible, keep in mind Lilith is ancient. Older even than Zoraida. That means Pandora might be not much younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 - but humans had those legends on Earth already... or at least many of them, surely some must have gotten the other way around from Malifaux to Earth. But still, did you mean that our legends prior to Breach have been influenced by Malifaux's world? Like, passing through the barrier between worlds and planting seeds into our imagination. Read Coppelius fluff, some nightmares are too terrible for us to think of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's entirely possible, keep in mind Lilith is ancient. Older even than Zoraida. That means Pandora might be not much younger. She could be older than Nephilim altogether and was around at the time when the tyrants first rose to power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 The only age-related things that I take away from the fluff is that Zoraida is really friggin' old, Lilith is WAY older, and the way Pandora acts leads me to believe that she is younger than Lil, but probably still older than Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 The only age-related things that I take away from the fluff is that Zoraida is really friggin' old, Lilith is WAY older, and the way Pandora acts leads me to believe that she is younger than Lil, but probably still older than Z. I think she's human, meaning she has to be younger than Zoriadia or older than Lilith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't think she is. The way Lil talks about Dora's association with humans leads me to believe that she's Neverborn, or hybrid Neverborn/Human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't think she is. The way Lil talks about Dora's association with humans leads me to believe that she's Neverborn, or hybrid Neverborn/Human. That does make more sence, that will mean she's most Likly the youngest of the three Who knows Jack Daw could be her dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Who knows Jack Daw could be her dadI would have guessed that he was the first Governor or some other human with power and unbridled ambition. They kind of hinted at that. But I can see the possibility of her being NB/H crossbreed between Jack and maybe...Lil? (Now there's a scary thought. Maybe Lil's the woman who betrayed Jack. :surprised) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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