bete with levi

[col_blitzwell]

so i was planing on picking up bete for you levi but am on the fence about it she seem a little to fragile any tips / advice would be help full

[Hateful Darkblack]

Bete is very much not fragile.

She can disappear as her Slow to Die action -- just make sure you have 10 or better in your hand.

[Kael Hate]

1. Hold a 10
   
2. Steampunk Abominations are great substitutes for enemy Death.
   
3. Defensive Stance
   
4. Blessings of Desolation
   

[Omenbringer]

To add to what has already been said, Bete is a great addition for Levi since he can control her Drawn to Death spawning mechanic better than any other master in the Game (since his normal crew builds revolve around dying and coming back). It is almost like granting him access to Kirai's Immediate Revenge ability.

[col_blitzwell]

does it have to be a 10 of anything? or was it a ten of :crows other wise i see no reason not to.

[Omenbringer]

10 of anything.

[Kael Hate]

Once you start using her, you will know when the opponent can't kill her and you can burn the 10 without fear. Try to scare the opponent into either ignoring her or wasting attacks against her while in defense mode. Either way you win at the end.

[Omenbringer]

Once you start using her, you will know when the opponent can't kill her and you can burn the 10 without fear.

Huh? She has to die in order to use One with the Night (thus requiring the 10) to bury, heal and reset for Drawn to Death placement.

The only real time to fear with Bete is when the enemy can Sacrifice her (thereby getting around One with the Night).

Edited December 20, 2011 by Omenbringer

[Kael Hate]

Huh? She has to die in order to use One with the Night (thus requiring the 10) to bury, heal and reset for Drawn to Death placement.

The only real time to fear with Bete is when the enemy can Sacrifice her (thereby getting around One with the Night).

The 10 that is stuck in your hand is causing you card disadvantage. If you control your activation orders you can put the board in a state where you can recover that card advantage and use the 10 without a situation where they pop off bete without you being able to make a save.

Also because of her ability to bury, you can carry defensive stance and blessings of desolation over to another turn. While also sneaky it can be used to make more SPA's that can die and bring her back again.

Are we on different lanes here or are we together now?

[Omenbringer]

The 10 that is stuck in your hand is causing you card disadvantage. If you control your activation orders you can put the board in a state where you can recover that card advantage and use the 10 without a situation where they pop off bete without you being able to make a save.

Regardless of when she dies in the turn you still carry the "card disadvantage", since you need to have a 10 or higher in hand to guarantee the ability (otherwise it's a crap shoot as to if you'll get one when you need it).

Also because of her ability to bury, you can carry defensive stance and blessings of desolation over to another turn. While also sneaky it can be used to make more SPA's that can die and bring her back again.

I know the trick.

Are we on different lanes here or are we together now?

If you read my earlier post you'll see that I did support the original response that Bete is good with Levi, the only thing that I was clarifying was your statement that "you will know when the opponent can't kill her and you can burn the 10 without fear."

[Kael Hate]

Regardless of when she dies in the turn you still carry the "card disadvantage", since you need to have a 10 or higher in hand to guarantee the ability (otherwise it's a crap shoot as to if you'll get one when you need it).

Well Levi has to discard when he cycles anyhow so its better to burn it than throw it IMO.

If you want to Hold a 10 all day then go for it. Like in MtG I like to play my cards.

@Blitz, seems Omen and I see it differently. You'll have to decide which you rather use.

[Omenbringer]

Well Levi has to discard when he cycles anyhow so its better to burn it than throw it IMO.

In a turn Levi dies by all means use it, though in this case Bete should still probably activate last to ensure she has the 10 available in case she needs it.

Additionally, going back to an earlier post:

Try to scare the opponent into either ignoring her or wasting attacks against her while in defense mode. Either way you win at the end.

Ignoring her is actually the better option for countering this. If she is using Defensive Stance then she isn't doing much else that turn (it has to be done first reducing her threat range and using an AP so she also wont be able to Flurry or Charge unless she recieves Fast from a living model dying within 3" of her (most of Levi's crew wont qualify).

If Levi buffs her with Blessings of Desolation that is one less AP he is using on something else. (Though I do like that it grants guaranteed access to the three different Triggers she'll have, she can only use one per attack and most times I would rather have the guarantee of depleting control cards than only the possibility of getting a free steampunk abomination).

Also not killing her means that she will lose both of these advantages during the end closing phase (since she will be in play) and either have to redo this sequence again next turn or run without it. And of course this will dictate the turns acitvations as she'll have to activate after Levi to benefit from Blessings again (so if losing initiative your oppoent will have at least 2 activations to kill her without having to worry about Defensive Stance at all).

Dont get me wrong it is a strong combo but like so much in this game after a few runs facing it, it loses it's bite a bit.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Omenbringer

[Oshova]

Ok, Turn 1 - You kill a Canine Remains (for a Waif), you Bring out Bete. You power up Bete, and bury her (if you don't have enough AP on Bete, you can just kill her and use Slow to Die.

Then on any other turn, you can bring her out powered up, and if your opponent doesn't kill her and you have spare models, kill and bury Bete.

Repeat for as many turns as you please. =]

[Twisted Metal]

Huh? She has to die in order to use One with the Night (thus requiring the 10) to bury, heal and reset for Drawn to Death placement.

Bete does not have to die to use one with the night.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

That seems like a complete waste. She is fairly easy to ignore and if she is primed you are continously wasting resources.

I think she does great with Levi, but I don't think she needs to be primed. If Levi has nothing else to cast I see the advantage of desolation, but most of his spells are better used offensively.

[col_blitzwell]

Thanks for the tips i will try a standin for a game this weekend and post some questions after the game.

[dsmiles]

In a turn Levi dies by all means use it, though in this case Bete should still probably activate last to ensure she has the 10 available in case she needs it.

I thought the intent with Levi was to kill him off every turn...

[SoulG]

Use a Stolen as the sacrifice to bring Bete out, and the rat to give her a version of Fast that sticks around until the End Closing Phase (forever if you keep burying her) and stack up her (0) action.

[magicpockets]

Use a Stolen as the sacrifice to bring Bete out, and the rat to give her a version of Fast that sticks around until the End Closing Phase (forever if you keep burying her) and stack up her (0) action.

That's a good idea.... been reading my other threads?

[Twisted Metal]

Lol yeah I was about to say...

[Omenbringer]

Ok, Turn 1 - You kill a Canine Remains (for a Waif), you Bring out Bete. You power up Bete, and bury her (if you don't have enough AP on Bete, you can just kill her and use Slow to Die.

Then on any other turn, you can bring her out powered up, and if your opponent doesn't kill her and you have spare models, kill and bury Bete.

Repeat for as many turns as you please. =]

That seems like a complete waste. She is fairly easy to ignore and if she is primed you are continously wasting resources.

I think she does great with Levi, but I don't think she needs to be primed. If Levi has nothing else to cast I see the advantage of desolation, but most of his spells are better used offensively.

This is a similar problem with the Lady Justice/ Death Marshal Pinebox trick, yes you can get a really buffed up model but it contributes nothing for several turns. And means one less activation.

Bete does not have to die to use one with the night.

True she doesn't, but using an AP to do it means two things;

1. She is making one less strike per turn (and not using Flurry which can only be used for Melee attacks on the same model)
   
2. She has taken her self out of the game for another turn (since she cant come back in the same turn she was buried by One with the Night). So this turn you can kill as much as you want without having to worry about her being placed again.

I thought the intent with Levi was to kill him off every turn...

It is not always possible (not all of his actions can be used to kill him) or advisable to kill him every turn, if not thought out it usually leads to either poor board position next turn or vulnerable Hollow Waifs.

But yes you should strive to kill him every turn.

[Oshova]

This is a similar problem with the Lady Justice/ Death Marshal Pinebox trick, yes you can get a really buffed up model but it contributes nothing for several turns. And means one less activation.

True she doesn't, but using an AP to do it means two things;

1. She is making one less strike per turn (and not using Flurry which can only be used for Melee attacks on the same model)
   
2. She has taken her self out of the game for another turn (since she cant come back in the same turn she was buried by One with the Night). So this turn you can kill as much as you want without having to worry about her being placed again.

Even if you only get Bete off once, if you've played it right, you will have taken out enough to have made up her points. And if not, then you've got enough models around (SPAs probably) to take her out. Being able to cheat in what cards you want means you can easily take her out in 2 hits. So you either sacrifice Flurry, or the activation of an SPA. Not exactly the end of the world. Now if you've taken Kill Protogé or Grudge as well, and have just taken out that model . . . That's putting you well on your way to a win, from essentially 1 model being awesome.

I honestly don't understand how this is that similar to the Lady J/Pinebox trick. That all has to happen in 1 turn, and you're open to losing the activation, and Lady J being nuetralised. With Bete, it doesn't matter if you lose the activation. It's just an extra thing that will happen in the turn. It is more closely alligned to tricks with The Dreamer, and everyone knows how much that gets complained about.

Just play it correctly once, and come back and tell me your opponent didn't look a little dissheartened when an undead woman popped out of the ground, killing their most expensive model, and gaining you 2 or 4 VPs . . . and if you flipped Slaughter as well . . . then do a little dance for me. =p

[col_blitzwell]

thanks for the help evey1 i got an other request i am looking to step my game up with levi and am in need of help i own or will be gettting

levi box set

extra waifs(on order)

the engine

ashes and dust

bete

extra pack of SPA

most games in my LGS dont go over 35 and its fairly new to the store. but we have a campain coming up and Levi will my master of chose.

@ oshova am going to try it soon but i cant dance but do have lots of cookies and every1 loves cookies:)

Edited December 23, 2011 by col_blitzwell

[Omenbringer]

Just play it correctly once, and come back and tell me your opponent didn't look a little dissheartened when an undead woman popped out of the ground, killing their most expensive model, and gaining you 2 or 4 VPs . . . and if you flipped Slaughter as well . . . then do a little dance for me. =p

Having played Bete for over 2 years in several different crews (levi included) I would agree that she is a good model (a bit better in a Levi crew because of the Auto-triggers).

Announcing Grudge/ Kill Protege means it can be countered (easily with just 1 AP that also nets a SS). And if the Strategy was Slaughter then using Drain Souls works even better as a counter (since it denies you the potential of max points as well). Additionally, Slaughter isn't that great a strategy to flip when using a crew that is built around the life-death-rebirth cycle (since it nets your opponent points everytime they kill your models, Levi and Bete are especially vulnerable to this exploitation).

Your mileage may vary of course...

[Oshova]

Killing Bete doesn't get you the SSs towards Slaughter. Much the same as killing Von Schill. If the model isn't removed from play, then you don't get the SSs.

And although announcing Kill Protogé and Grudge can leave you to looking a bit obvious, if you can out-activate your opponent, then you can hit them without having any return fire. Obviously this relies on you being able to out-activate them, otherwise things do get tricky.