walruspride Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I played a match against hamelin withe kirai the other day n couldn't do anything. I tried to use my shikome to take out his stolen which was my prey. Hamelin used something so that it could only target him but since I can only attack stolen shikome was useless is there any way to avoid this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minmax Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Shikome should still be effective. It still has terrifying for the nasty little rats. You are playing with Kirai. Sacrifice the shikome after your done with it and send another one out. There is other spirtis you can summon so you don't have to worry about the difference of cost for the shikome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walruspride Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes I absorbed it but after that one still no luck between turning all my spirits insignificant I couldn't do anything maybe I'm just playn kirai wrong I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBarlekamp Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 my question is, why the hell did you choose a stolen as your prey? Any model in your crew is capable of killing a stolen. As a Hamelin player, I would caution you that everything except Nix and usually Hamelin are fair game to be sacrificed for spells and are as such disposable. If you want to use Shikome against Hamelin, prey Nix, but most likely Hamelin will do exactly what he did to the Shikome. You are better off not even taking/summoning a shikome against Hamelin, unless you can do it at the end of a turn (after Hamelin has activated) and use it to kill Nix or maybe a ratcatcher. Those would be the only models worth a Shikome's attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walruspride Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ill admit not my best choices on how to use a shikome n it definitely didn't work. My plan was to use the nimble to get close thenget fast and still be able to move after killing it. I haven't really played against him before so really didn't have any plan. Not knowing what he could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulG Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Kirai is the Ressurectionist's -best- master against Hamelin, simply because she laughs at insignificant (just sac the spirit and summon another one!). Shikome should only come into play to target Hamelin himself. Use your purchased models to go after Nix. In a traditional Hamelin list, Nix and Hamelin are the only models that matter. Also, terrifying. ALWAYS remember terrifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 True that toss a pair of terror checks at a rat swarm and watch them run like rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think the Ratcatchers are a bigger lynchpin for Hamelin. Shikome targeting them should do well, especially with Denial of Sanzu - if the Ratcatcher can't move, the rat pack can't move. Or just shred the bastard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naiatoc Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 unless you can do it at the end of a turn (after Hamelin has activated) This is the way to play Shikome. I learned the hard way never to start with them, summon them during the game. This way you can choose their prey, then attack immediately. The only draw back is when I go against an opponent I can't out activate. Then I have to get creative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 What crews are you fighting that out activate Kirai. I don't think I have ever played a crew she did not start with more models then the other guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Gremlins, on Occasion. Hamlin on occasion, McMorning if he is bringing a "Slaughter my dog pack" list... on the first turn. ... That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naiatoc Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 What crews are you fighting that out activate Kirai. I don't think I have ever played a crew she did not start with more models then the other guy. The only crew I've played against that out activated me was Gremlins. I had 10 models, he had 12. I really only mentioned it in my post because this thread is about Shikome against Hamelin (so by extension, Kirai against Hamelin). And Hamelin can bring a lot of rats to the table! I haven't played against him yet, but I bet he can out activate me if he tries (maybe even if he's not trying). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cain Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 And Hamelin can bring a lot of rats to the table! I haven't played against him yet, but I bet he can out activate me if he tries (maybe even if he's not trying). The rats got a 4 inch pack activation rule. When the forces clash you rarely face more than two packs (with multiple activations of course). As long the Hamelin player doenst abuse the rat-eat-themselves-thing. Kirai get 5 nonsense activations every turn with her seishin. Summon the Shikome up to 12" behind blocking cover, wait for Hamelins activation and destroy him. There is not much he can do if he cant make the Shikome insignificant before she gets him. Nimble, fast and flying spirit gets him always and everywhere as long he cant surround himself with so much rats she cant reach him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 If you do start with a Shikome against Hamelin, I would suggets picking a model that is going to die to be your prey. You will want it to have the ability to target several different models in his crew, so getting rid of prey from it is very good. Choose a rat Sure, you'll not be getting fast, but the freedom to target any models is worth it in my opinion (Note, My shikome experience is with Marcus, so I've never been able to summon them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrova Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I was the Hamelin player in the aforementioned game. The list was very non-traditional. Hamelin - 5SS Nix - 7 Desperate Merc x4 - 8 Latino Pistolero x3 - 9 Terror Tot x2 - 6 Stolen - 3 Obedient Wretch - 2 It didn't help him that he got Kirai somewhat close, I got Nix near her, and then won initiative for three turns giving him negative flips with few safe places to Swirl to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necromorph Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yeah, target should be nix for a shikome, against that list (or the Merc). IMO, though, Nix is important, and it forces the Hamelin player to deal with the shikome right away, instead of making it insig and ignoring it. Strange and interesting list there Korrova....oh look, a Hamelin list with no Rat Catchers...imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Very intresting hamlin list. Im currious how well it performs for you in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I dont think this is so much a Hamelin problem as just a problem that you're inexperienced with Kirai, and not maximising her movement advantages. This is how to use a Shikome: Prey your opponent's biggest, meanest, most critical model that doesn't have Use Soulstone or any crazy defensive abilities. If the situation warrants it, Grudge or Kill Protegee that thing too. Shikome thrive off schemes like that. Shikome can kill basically anything in the game and shouldnt require too much cheating assistance because of the number of positive flips it gets. If you make sure it's supported by other spirits (Ikiryo, more Shikome, flocking Night Terrors, etc) it wont get insta-wasted in general if your opponent wins initiative next turn. And you can bring Insidious Madness to make sure he doesnt. A Kirai alpha-strike done right will leave your opponent at such a model deficit he'll struggle to do anything back to you, in general. It's all about making sure your Shikome gets the drop on him; remember that Shikome can be swirled in for a Night Terror, Seishin etc, from completely out of sight, meaning he should never get the chance to deal with your Shikome at all. Oh, and against Hamelin, a terrifying ghost birdwoman standing in between a lot of rats and killing his key pieces is a great way to ruin his day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrova Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 So as to not derail this thread any longer, I started another thread in the Outcasts forum for the Hamelin discussion. (I know, yet another Hamelin discussion) I agree with what has been said. Kirai is very strong, but experience with her is key. Knowing who to target with your Shikome in each game against all of the different crews is very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Calmdown, problem with Hamelin is that as the OP says he can easily cuddle multiple Shikomes by controlling what they can and can't target. Adran's advice is the only way I can see them working against him. And which Hamelin player is taking rats and rat catchers against Kirai? :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Calmdowns way of not allowing Hamelin to cast at the shikome should also work (board dependant) unless Hamelin is much more moveable than I realise. If it doesn't work, and the shikome is made useless, either use her as a terryfying rat scarer, new prey hamelin, or bring in another Shikome, Hamelin only can stop one by making it target him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Hamelin only can stop one by making it target him Or killing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Well sure, he can stop loads by killing them, but who can't? I understand even Marcus can manage that... Is his damage magical? if not isn't that most of his turn spent on killing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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