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Soulstone miner hit and run?


JackRussel
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Something that just occured to me about Ramos and the SS Miner (apologies if anyone has posted this before): Rusty Alyce gives two Soustone Miners Reactivate on Turn 1 with Burn Out (she needs a 15 :tomes to cast the spell, and she can use Ramos' Ca of 8 :tomes). The Soustone Miners use Overdrive and they Bury at the end of their first Activation to avoid the "reduce to 1Wd effect". The Miners get their usual movement, and then on Turn 2 both Miners keep Reactivate, getting 8 melee attacks each! If they survive to make their second Activation on Turn 2, Bury and repeat on Turn 3. This sounds like fun, and Rusty Alyce is not a bad choice for Ramos anyway.

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I just looked over the Soulstone miner and is it a good idea to use overdrive then move forward with a walk, hit somthing twice and then use tunneling? And then is there a good way to heal it afterwards?

If you bury before the end of your activation you dont take the 2 wounds. You will only take damage if you are hit before you activate.

I'm pretty sure reactivate as an effect is like fast/slow as an effect it only applies to next activation.

Reactive (and Fats/Slow) is an effect which is applied to your card for your next activation and which falls off at the end of said activation. If you bury before the end of your activation you don't lose the effect so get it again next turn.

There were a couple of threads on this in the Rules section which got clarified by Ratty.

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Incorrect, I believe. You lose the Reactivate, since Reactivate states the model can activate again this turn. If it's not there to activate, well tough luck.

1. Reactivate is an effect says you can activate again "this turn"

2. At the end of the turn you are buried so the effect doesn't resolve (it's been ruled 1. that Fast etc stay on your card until the end of your activation and 2. that effects which resolve at the end of an activation don't resolve if you tunnel before then end of your activation)

3. Next turn you have an effect which says "you can activate again this turn"

4. Bury, rinse and repeat

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Which I think is confusing since next turn you are essential continuing an activation but get full AP.

You're not continuing an activation, your activation ends. You just don't resolve effects which happen at the end of an activation as you're buried at that point. Same with Nightmares buried at the end of a turn, they still end their turn - they just don't resolve effects which happen in the end closing phase.

Also reactivate combined with overdrive if you want to utilize your reactivate you will need to take the two wounds.

Yes, you would take 2 wounds at the end fo your "first activation". It kinda makes it useless imho, better to just roll with (+2) Melee Master on each turn in case you lose initiative and take a hit before you can rebury yourself.

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It's not burying that ends your activation, it's the fact that it is no longer on the table while activating that ends its activation.

Basically:

1. SS Miner uses overdrive

2. SS Miner buries itself

3. SS Miner is removed from play

4. Since it is no longer in play, SS Miner's activation ends

5. Since SS Miner is not in play, it can't be affected by any effects such as removing effects and end of closing phase or end of activation effects.

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Rat said that was how it works so no two wounds as long as you bury each turn. I am thinking this will work well with Ramos and Rusty Alice. Give reactivate in the first turn and keep burying until your ready to use in later turns. Eat the 2 wounds later and as long as you bury second activation you wont go down to 1 wound at end of turn.

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Or eat two wounds heal with combat mechanic bury on reactivated turn. You now have melee master and reactivate and do not have to take the wounds again as long as you bury on second activation. Though that means you are now on the board for a turn and are a legal target for 2 turns.

This is a great way to maxmize the placement of the ss. Move 8" first turn than second move 4" and burrow you are now able to pop out 20" from deployment threaten 22". This is pretty much fastest and meanest arcanist model available @6ss.

Side note I read ratty's response to magic wrong.

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Picked up Rusty Alyce today from my FLGS to give this a try - could be fun :)

Her spell is a pritty easy cast could stack it on two of them first turn. She is also great for going avatar on the second turn and still getting a full activation out of Ramos. Damn got me want to try this out now.

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Her spell is a pritty easy cast could stack it on two of them first turn. She is also great for going avatar on the second turn and still getting a full activation out of Ramos. Damn got me want to try this out now.

I would actually use one to gain extra ss. For later when avatar.

Take two, rusty, avatar, and two spiders or one large would be a solid crew.

Spend a turn being a summoning factory. Than have Ramos run out and raise help turn 4 on.

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melee master is not an action modifier (see page 34), so it works differently to fast.

Specific action points are not given a specific end time. (Page 33)

Therefore you should keep it.

Just been hunting and found

Until the model is activated its second time, it has the effect of Reactivate on it. As soon as it is activated its second time, Reactivate drops off. If it receives Reactivate again, it will not be affected by it at all and will not carry over to its next Activation.

So the repeating reactivating miner isn't a go (well wasn't in May this year).

I'm guessing This activation and This turn are both agreed to roll over, in which case you should take 2 damage every activation it ends until it suffers an end phase.

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melee master is not an action modifier (see page 34), so it works differently to fast.

Specific action points are not given a specific end time. (Page 33)

I'm not sure that means the intention is that you'll keep it, I wouldn't be surprised if it works the same way as gaining something like (+1)Fast.

Just been hunting and found

*Sketchy Ruling*

So the repeating reactivating miner isn't a go (well wasn't in May this year).

Agree, this ruling means as soon as you activate the second time you lose reactivate. (Although it does contradict Ratty ruling about about other action modifiers)

I'm guessing This activation and This turn are both agreed to roll over, in which case you should take 2 damage every activation it ends until it suffers an end phase.

Yes, the 2 wounds from overdrive would happen every time it is in play diring the end of it's activation until the effect ends in an end closing phase

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Yet another thread that highlights the fact that the 'buried/activation end/closing phase clean up' rules at the moment just don't work well and need to be simplified.

Would it really impact the game in a bad way if being buried didn't stop the closing phase affecting the model?

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I'm not sure that means the intention is that you'll keep it, I wouldn't be surprised if it works the same way as gaining something like (+1)Fast.

I'm sure It doesn't.

They are in seperate sections of the rules manual, and so master/expert don't end when used (which an action modifier does). They use compeletly different wording in their abilities.

Melee master will end in the closing phase.

On the rules it would go as follows

Stiched Togther given fast

Activates, gains 3 ap. Is killed. Gains re-activate.

Reactivaes and gains 2 ap

Stitched together given casting expert

Activates, gains 2 ap plus a casting AP. Is killed

Reactivates and gains 2 AP and 1 Casting AP.

Changing the buried rules woudl be good in my opinion, but most of them can be worked out easily if you read the actual words of the effect

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I'm sure It doesn't.

They are in seperate sections of the rules manual, and so master/expert don't end when used (which an action modifier does). They use compeletly different wording in their abilities.

Melee master will end in the closing phase.

On the rules it would go as follows

Stiched Togther given fast

Activates, gains 3 ap. Is killed. Gains re-activate.

Reactivaes and gains 2 ap

Stitched together given casting expert

Activates, gains 2 ap plus a casting AP. Is killed

Reactivates and gains 2 AP and 1 Casting AP.

Changing the buried rules woudl be good in my opinion, but most of them can be worked out easily if you read the actual words of the effect

The rules regarding timing on application of AP gained from fast/slow and from experts/masters is very clear if you read the rulebook, but has been repeatedly thrown out by rulings. I wouldn't put any stock in what the rulebook says in this area as I don't believe the rulebook is the same as the intention of the rules (or at least it isnt anymore), I'd just ask in the rules forum for a ruling instead.

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