Getting the Most Out of Crooligans

[edonil]

So, I've started painting my Molly box...and I love these guys. I know that Necropunks and Night Terrors are cheaper, but not really the point. The point is that these models look awesome, and they seem to have some neat tricks. So, I'm curious what people who have actual game experience have thought of them, and any tips anyone has?

One thing I thought of with a Seamus list, is using Lure in combination with Return to Sender. Grabbing the Treasure Marker, for example, then Luring an enemy model into melee range, and hoping for winning the Initiative next turn. Then, return to sender, and the treasure marker is safely away.

[Sandwich]

I can't say much good about them.

The bonus walk is okay for a Line in the Sand.

I'm pretty sure Return to Sender would make you drop the Treasure chest, though.

But I'm not 100%.

They can occasionally put out a lot of damage if you get 2-3 of them in the middle of an enemy crew and just go crazy.

But then you can also just bring Belles who have a lot more utility.

I don't know.

They're a hard sell, but they can be great some times.

[fritz the cat]

the only times I've had much success with them was with Mcmourning. I threw 2 out for far reaching corners and kept one with mcmourning. Early game the one near mcmourning was giving him cover as he advanced, and the 2 far flung ones were just double moving. Mid-late game I basically had the option of choosing what quadrant of the board was most essential to have them, and had the option of warping them all to that point.

[Q'iq'el]

Sandwich is right. You can only transport it via Walk Action. Even the Crooligan's own push would make them drop it.

[fritz the cat]

Sandwich is right. You can only transport it via Walk Action. Even the Crooligan's own push would make them drop it.

crooligans dont have a push, they have a place. and the extra movement from interacts i believe is worded as an extra walk action

[Q'iq'el]

crooligans dont have a push, they have a place. and the extra movement from interacts i believe is worded as an extra walk action

Writing from memory right now but, I think it was a push after the interacts.

Either way, placement falls under "changing position on the table by an effect other than the Walk Action" too, so it makes the model drop the Treasure Marker.

[fritz the cat]

yeah, the placement thing would def not work, but the interact im positive is a walk action (which is good in this case, but kinda sucks if you wanna use it to get out of combat)

[rancor709]

The post interaction is a push. And you will drop a counter as it isn't a walk action. Also crooligans are horrors so max of two unless molly is in the list. They have a lot of potential in line in the sand. I also like the mist providing some addiotional los blocking but u need an 8+ to get mist off. Have to use them more but so far unimpressed.

[fritz the cat]

The post interaction is a push. And you will drop a counter as it isn't a walk action. Also crooligans are horrors so max of two unless molly is in the list. They have a lot of potential in line in the sand. I also like the mist providing some addiotional los blocking but u need an 8+ to get mist off. Have to use them more but so far unimpressed.

pffft, yes sir, you would be correct, push up to its walk.

hurray for reading comprehension

[edonil]

Bah. Why Wyrd? Why?! I love these models and yet even the idea I thought of for them they aren't any good...

[fritz the cat]

as is, the best I can think of is line in the sand or destroy the evidence... thats a pretty meek list though

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

List is meek but these are strategies a lot of resser crews struggle with maxing vp (except maybe kirai), the addition of crooligans might be limited but that bit helps. Also now the models really help against a shooty crew like the family which ressers again struggle with.

[Q'iq'el]

Bah. Why Wyrd? Why?! I love these models and yet even the idea I thought of for them they aren't any good...

I think they are brilliant. Most likely you want them to do something they haven't been designed for.

Line in the Sand isn't the only scenario where the crew has to spread, cover lots of ground and interact with objectives. Plant Evidence, Destroy the Evidence, Recconoiter - all are the Strategies Resurrectionists have some problems with and Crooligans are great at. Even Deliver a Message and Claim Jump may situationaly fall into this category.

It's just that the Master faring the worst at these is Nicodem (as he prefers to sit tight within a ball of his slowly shambling army). As I've been saying from the start, he's the one profiting the most from any cooperation with Molly and her Special Forces, despite the fluff suggesting she belongs elsewhere.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[fritz the cat]

I think they are brilliant. Most likely you want them to do something they haven't been designed for.

Line in the Sand isn't the only scenario where the crew has to spread, cover lots of ground and interact with objectives. Plant Evidence, Destroy the Evidence, Recconoiter - all are the Strategies Resurrectionists have some problems with and Crooligans are great at. Even Deliver a Message and Claim Jump may situationaly fall into this category.

It's just that the Master faring the worst at these is Nicodem (as he prefers to sit tight within a ball of his slowly shambling army). As I've been saying from the start, he's the one profiting the most from any cooperation with Molly and her Special Forces, despite the fluff suggesting she belongs elsewhere.

its not so much that they're bad per say. Its just that if you have all 3 options (night terrors, necropunks, and crooligans) and can use any of them, the crooligans have under performed by comparison. Atleast in any kind of playtesting ive seen or heard

[Q'iq'el]

its not so much that they're bad per say. Its just that if you have all 3 options (night terrors, necropunks, and crooligans) and can use any of them, the crooligans have under performed by comparison. Atleast in any kind of playtesting ive seen or heard

I don't see this.

Necropunks are very easy, from my experience, to counter for most fast crews. Yes, they are speedy, but they are also fargile and other crews don't lack things which are both fast and killy. On the top of that, Necropunks have been around so long, there are few players who have no idea how to deal with them.

The only master who can bring back Necropunks he loses or bring them late into the game just to complete objectives is Nicodem. For him they work OK, but even in such a crew they loose a lot on efficiency once they leave the bubble, so they are not perfect for scenarios where one needs to spread out.

Night Terrors are very fine, but they excel at early grabs. Not only that, but they are spirits - at least for Nicodem and McMouring taking them is more or less counter-productive... and you won't summon them late in the game either.

Crooligans do Night Terrors' job (early grabs) well enough and can be converted to Flesh Constructs or Punk Zombies or even Rogue Necromancy later on (both Nicodem and McMourning). They can be summoned later in the game for late objective grabs too - anyone can do it if they take Molly, but Nicodem doesn't even need her for that.

Obviously most of this applies to Molly herself, when she leads a crew... with the exception that she'd be better off buying fighty and fast models (Rogue Necromancy, Night Terrors perhaps) and summoning Crooligans from the counters, for the late game grabs.

Kirai is a bit of own sandbox player and Seamus is probably the only master I have real trouble when it comes to synergies with Molly and her Special Forces. No doubt that's because I don't know him very well... but also because there's little she adds to his crew and in most cases bringing more Belles means the crews gets inferior comparing to what it started with... If you don't bring Molly, Crooligans compete with Night Terrors in his crew and if you bring Molly, you'd want to make them from the bodies of the fallen powerful undead Seamus can hire at the beginning.

And I'm under impression Seamus as a master doesn't struggle much in situations where his crew has to spread or move fast. At least not as much as other Book 1 Rezzers. Which may be another reason I think Crooligans have diminished value in his crew.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[fritz the cat]

I'd say that crooligans best fit is mcmourning yes. Early grabs in a mcmourning list though could just as likely be filled by canine remains though, who can run at stuff and you can get 2to1. And dont have to take molly which i think is the biggest thing holding back crooligans, if i could just have 3 off the bat, i'd be alot happier, having to take the 9point henchman of molly in 25-35 is just such a drain though

[Q'iq'el]

I'd say that crooligans best fit is mcmourning yes. Early grabs in a mcmourning list though could just as likely be filled by canine remains though, who can run at stuff and you can get 2to1. And dont have to take molly which i think is the biggest thing holding back crooligans, if i could just have 3 off the bat, i'd be alot happier, having to take the 9point henchman of molly in 25-35 is just such a drain though

See, for Nicodem Canine remains are a dubious option from the start (used mostly for lack of other cheap minions that could do the early grabs and still drop corpse counters when needed) and Molly, copying Mortimer's corpse-digging skills, compensates for the loss of CC generation related to dogs (and in a better way too, because 2~3 AP translate directly into counters, without the need to engage entire crew into dog-culling for a turn or two).

Crooligans are good enough at what they do, but they fill a niche not all Masters need filled. And that is the crucial point here. If you play Nicodem, you cannot not love them. If you play McMourning or want to play Molly herself, you will find lots of uses for them, but they'll be situational.

As for Seamus and Kirai, I simply don't know if it makes sense trying to make them work.

[rancor709]

I do agree Q'iq'el that molly and friends work best with Nicodem if you aren't taking Seamus' Avatar form. The Crooligans are interesting and adding more options to potentially block los and operate outside the death ball is a good thing. The fact that the unit works best as a trio but most take a 9pt model to have that trio is a hard sell for me. I really really like necropunks with Nico because of the cost of the unit. While everyone playing should know how to counter necros at this point. Killing a single 4stone model to cripple the other one isn't hard to do.

They are another choice to fullfill the interacting with objectives and provide some advanced deployment which ressers haven't had. And the ability to drop obscuring shouldn't be taken lightly. I do think part of it is they are new and play a bit differently than were used to yet and this is causing the old reliable syndrome to creep in.

I'd say more testing overall is needed and open minds on them as well. But I would very much like to be able to take 3 without being forced to include molly.

[Q'iq'el]

I always considered Necros and Dogs inferior choices for Nicodem. Taken only because there's nothing to fit the role better.

IMHO Crooligans do just that, even without Molly.

And Nicodem doesn't need to take Molly to have 3 - he can raise them up to 3 or more. There's some gross misunderstanding as to how the Rules Manual limits the Special Forces.

You can't have more than 1 SF in a crew at any time.

You cannot hire more than 2 unless you bring the Henchman who enables them.

The Special Forces rules at the beginning of RM (forgot the page, it's in minion characteristics section) are very clear how it works. The often quoted rules from the Encounter section apply only to Hiring process and are being misapplied when extended to the entire game.

[fritz the cat]

im still interested in testing crooligans out with special terrain features and special events. Theres alot of interacting among them that ive seen, and I think it could take them to another level if youre using those rules

[Q'iq'el]

Terrain's another thing in Crooligans favor, even over Night Terrors. As is, on a high-density Terraclips table placement effects are far more powerful than Leap or even Flight. Granted, Crooligans are nowhere near Showgirls, still being able to leave a building with 1AP, where even flying models often have to spend 3-4 actions translates to over an entire turn of movement advantage

[fritz the cat]

Terrain's another thing in Crooligans favor' date=' even over Night Terrors. As is, on a high-density Terraclips table placement effects are far more powerful than Leap or even Flight. Granted, Crooligans are nowhere near Showgirls, still being able to leave a building with 1AP, where even flying models often have to spend 3-4 actions translates to over an entire turn of movement advantage[/quote']

night terrors can fly through walls

[Q'iq'el]

Ah, spirits, right. Still, for the crews that'd rather avoid taking spirits, Crooligans offer a half-way boost (literally).

[fritz the cat]

yeah, all in all I dont think id ever taken them over night terrors with seamus (too much synergy there) Id situationally take them with mcmourning, and youve slightly sold me on them with nico.

but the burning question is... what about hamelin?

...right?

...guys?

<.<

>.>

*crickets*

[fritz the cat]

Ah' date=' spirits, right. Still, for the crews that'd rather avoid taking spirits, Crooligans offer a half-way boost (literally).[/quote']

I was thinknig tho, for crews that need corpses and the point of mobile units that can run up around the table, Id say the value of their corpses is lessened as the likelyhood of them staying in the masters bubble of influence isnt there. And if youre say... using for example canine remains to run out and collect those tokens... you may aswell just take the dogs to do the deed as is.

In closing. Night terrors are the bomb